Mannlicher Schoenauer? Model? Value?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by mburkhart, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. mburkhart

    mburkhart New Member

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    Ok, I am helping my father-in-law sell his rifle. I have been doing some research and have come up with some details about the rifle. However, In my quest to find out how much it is worth I have become even more confused? I know in order for me to get a better response I need to post some pictures and I will as soon as I get my camera back. Until then I guess I just need some more facts and advice about this rifle. From what I have found this is a Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle. I am thinking pre-WWII because of the round bolt release. I have not been able to find a model # without removing the stock. I am thinking it is a model 1903 because (according to my father-in-law) it is chambered in 6.5x54. On the left side of the rifle it reads (Oesterr.Waffenfabr-Ges Steyr). On the other side located on the barrel and the receiver is what I would think is the s/n of 156XX. The stock is in "used" condition with checkering on the forearm and grip. The stock does not extend all the way up the barrel. At the tip of the stock there is a silver rod that when taken out releases the barrel from the stock. I have not seen this on rifles I have researched but it looks factory? The stock has a hinged metal butt plate. There is also a lever in front of the trigger guard. I am thinking this might be a take down model but I can't find a photo of one so therefor not sure? I can't tell if this rifle has been reblued? If so they did a crappy job because it does show wear. I apologize for not having a photo but I will get one up asap! Thank you all for any advice and help you can give. God Bless!
  2. mburkhart

    mburkhart New Member

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    Here are some photos of the rifle.

    Attached Files:

  3. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    It seems unlikely that your father's gun is a Model 1903, as they were only available in 6.5x53, had a full-length stock (un-checkered) and double set-triggers. I believe that it was the M-1950 Mann-Scho that was first chambered in 6.5x54. The 1950 also had a checkered half-stock and they were available with a single trigger. The rifle had a 23-1/2" barrel.

    Some Model 1950's were carbines, but they had a full-length stock. The 6.5x54 had an 18-1/4" barrel.

    Know that I am more familiar with older models of the Mann-Scho so some of the following comments are therefore conjecture:

    While MS did make some take-down versions, I believe the lever in front of the trigger guard may be to release the floorplate of the rotary magazine. Earlier models required the use of a blunt object which is inserted in the front hole located on the floorplate. Your lever may be an improvement on that system.

    The silver rod that you mention (if that is what I am seeing in the photo) is seemingly the front swivel screw which held a front sling swivel. The screw passes through the stock and a lug on the bottom of the barrel and it would be necessary to remove this screw to remove the stock from the barrel. It is possible that the swivel on your father's gun was lost or damaged, and the one seen in the photo added later.

    It does not seem likely that your father's gun was reblued as the stamping on the side of the receiver appears factory crisp. The photos indicate that the gun once had a scope as the screw holes at the rear of the receiver would otherwise be covered with a dummy plate.

    A Model 1950 in NRA Good condition is worth about $1,000.00. Because of the missing dummy plate and possible modification of the swivel, I would suggest your fathers's gun might be worth a little less.

    If your father's gun turns out to be a carbine with a sporterized stock, however, it has no collector's value and may only be worth $300-400.
  4. mburkhart

    mburkhart New Member

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    Thanks Contenderizer for the information you provided! After you mentioned how to remove the magazine using a blunt object to push the button I decided to give it a try, and it worked! I was also able to "takedown" the rifle. The lever in front of the trigger guard released the action and barrel from the stock. I didn't have to turn a single screw. I also included pics of the silver rod mechanism that releases the barrel from the stock. I also noticed that there is a spring in the stock where the pin goes in. Thanks again for all the info you provided. I am having lots of fun researching this rifle! I think I need to try and purchase from my father myself? God Bless!!!!

    Attached Files:

  5. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    Thanks for the additional photos; they sure help me in my learning process, given that I am not familiar with the MS take-down version.

    The screw that is removed at the front of the forend of the stock was used for the sling swivel on all other MS guns. Your photos show that they are using that screw as a means to hold the stock to the barrel. Therefore, (and based upon the close-up photo of your existing front swivel), I have to retract my first assesment that your front sling swivel is not original. It seems that it is ... and that is a good thing.

    While I am still certin that your gun dates to 1950 or later, my estimate of value may still be off. The books that I have make little mention about take-down versions. In fact, the 14th Edition of Gun Values makes no mention of take-down values at all, so you may have a piece worth MORE than I originally estimated due to its scarcity. I suggest you confirm the caliber, measure the barrel length (which will help date the gun) and then go from there. Enjoy the hunt!
  6. mburkhart

    mburkhart New Member

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    I have received some ammo from my father and it says 6.5X54M.Sch. Just about all wording on the box is in German (RWS Dynamit Nobel) is the brand. He said he has shot about 20 rounds through it so I sure hope this was the right caliber? If I measured the barrel right I came up with about 23.5" to the bolt lug. So if I need to measure to the bolt face this would be about a 22.75" barrel? I need to get a wooden dowel to measure it more accurately I guess. I found this website (http://discover-net.net/~kanotex/mannlicher/) that has a lot of description about these rifles and I compared mine to the Model 1950 and they do favor each other but still doesn't seem right? Anyway thanks for all your help! God Bless!!
  7. bearman67

    bearman67 New Member

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    I have the same type rifle but mine has the full mannlicher stock and has a set of weird scope mounts that I think they call claw mounts. Mine also used to have a hinged butt plate but it has been lost. Mine is a .257 caliber. Mine also has dual triggers. I used to use it when I was a kid and just recently inherited from my stepfather. If anyone can help me figure out how to use scope mounts it would be appreciated. The back spring loaded mount is located just in front of the bolt release on the left side.
  8. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    Bearman, I would upload a photo, but the process is fairly easy to understand without it. As you suspected, the scope would have rings and - at the bottom - would be claw type ears which inserted into the mounts. When the scope is on the gun, one simply pushed the spring loaded button and tipped the scope up and off of the gun.

    Some scopes had one such claw at he rear, others had two. Some scopes had rings that could be removed from the scope, but on others the rings could not be removed as they were a part of the scope housing. I have one example of each.

    These scopes and mounts were generally fitted to the gun after the sale, and as a result, they were custom installations and rarely interchangable. You may be able to find rings to fit your gun's mounts, and if you do, you can install a scope of the proper size. It is very unlikely that you will find a scope with the attached rings that will fit.
  9. bearman67

    bearman67 New Member

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    I am enclosing a couple of pics for you to look at.

    Attached Files:

  10. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    Bearman, it appears you have a Model 1950 Carbine, which was the first model offered in 257 Roberts (the Model 1952 Improved Carbine was also offered in 257, but had a swept-back bolt handle, hooded front sight and 24" barrel).

    I can't tell by the photo what you have done about the missing butt-plate, but whatever you do, DON'T install a modern recoil pad or anything else that requires cutting the buttstock!! That will forever kill value, which is currently about $1200 (retail) if you had the correct butt-plate. I suggest you hunt the gun shows and the internet of a butt-plate and scope rings. Good luck.
  11. bearman67

    bearman67 New Member

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    Thanks for all your info Contenerizer. I kick myself about not pursuing getting the buttplate from this rifle from my Step-dad's wife and now she has passed too. It was a metal buttplate with a trap door in it. I used to keep matches in there when I was a kid. I think it will be difficult to find one but I will keep looking.
  12. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    Indeed, it will be difficult to find. In the interim, consider having a gunsmith fit a temporary buttplate which will allow you to use the gun without fear of chipping the buttstock. A gunsmith can fit a plastic buttplate by trimming, heating and bending it to fit.

    Here is something else to ponder ... why was the buttplate removed in the first place? Was the stock refinished and the plate lost then? If the gun has been refinished, value has already been diminished.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2007
  13. bearman67

    bearman67 New Member

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    I am not sure why the buttplate was removed but I do know the stock is the original finish and has never been refinished.
  14. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    Try this site for more research info. The website offers reproductions of old Manufactures' Catalogs, and you will find a couple catalogs which include M/S guns. One of the catalogs includes the take-down model first mentioned in this thread.

    www.cornellpubs.com
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  15. carrdon

    carrdon New Member

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    I came across this forum by accident while surfing. It looks like you have a British preWWII modified 1903 Mannlicher. The takedown system in the photos is exactly like others I have seen. Often times the barrel will have the name of the dealer/gunsmith on the top with a city, ie, London, Glascow, etc.

    I have been collecting Mannlichers since 1962 and I was surprised by a lot of the misinformation here about them. Keep the rifle, Don't let anyone pry it out of your hands!
  16. shivam-shyam

    shivam-shyam New Member

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    respected sir i am dr shivam kansal from india having a take down rifle from oesterr waffenfabr ges.steyr on its barel the imprint is Patent Mannlicher Schoenauer M 1903. its serial no. is 5797 and its bore is .256 . I have few quest. about the same kindly help me
    # in which country or state this rifle made.
    # in which year it made.
    # its estimated cost in rupees.
    # its callibre or exact bore.
    # how i know the rifle is orignal or not
    # who was the first owner
  17. Mark

    Mark New Member

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    Hi fellows,

    I don't see a "takedown" rifle in any of the pictures. A Mannlicher Schoenauer takedown rifle actually unscrews the barrel from the receiver. There are no tools needed for this operation, and the forearm stays with the barrel. While your rifles are very nice, they are not takedown models.

    mburkhardt, I know everything you have points to 6.5 X 54, but have you measured the bore? You can carefully use a calipers for this. There should also be some proof marks on the underside of the barrel.
    Depending on your rifles history, you should see "6,5" or 256 somewhere near the breech. This would indicate a 6.5 X 54 MS. It's not uncommon for these to be unmarked as to caliber.

    I don't think a rifle with a 22+ barrel could be a 1903 model. There are ALWAYS exceptions. If J.J. Got-rocks wanted a 22 inch barrel whatever, I'm sure the factory would build him one. It's hard knowing the history on these old Mannlichers because of the two world wars, and other disasters where records were lost. Quite a bit of information can be gleaned from old catalogs, but remember these were marketing guys, and they weren't always restricted by the facts. LOL

    I guess proof marks and measurements are the best means of identifying a rifle as to model and caliber. The "he said, she said, and I heard" are about the least.
    I'm sure not trying to pee in anyones wheaties, I'm just trying to help out.
    Mark
  18. CAC1957

    CAC1957 New Member

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    Hey! Fellows looks like I may be in the right spot. Mark I don't want to steal your thunder but I have some questions concerning a carbine that I am trying to restore. Its a Hembrug 1918 which after research I believe is another of the many models of Mannlicher-Steyr carbines. I am missing a few minor parts to complete the restoration. I need some help in locating parts. Any response would be helpful.

    Hembrug 1918
    6.5 MM X 53.5 MM R
    Barrel length : 17 inches
    Cartouche marksing on rightside of the stock: W with 1918 underneath.
    May have been used by the Dutch infantry during WW II.
  19. caprafalconeri

    caprafalconeri New Member

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    I HAVE THE SAME 6.5.MM, M1903, IM NOT SURE IF IT REQUIRES 6.5X54 OR 6.5X53 BULLETS COS I DONT HAVE ANY BULLETS FOR IT, NEVER HAD. ITS A FAMILY GUN BEING PASSED ON.....SOME LIGHT ON THE MATTER WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. I DO HAVE AN EMPTY SHELL THAT SAYS 6.5MS KYNOCH THAT FITS PERFECTLY INTO THE CHAMBER. I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED HERE, PLZ HELP.........................
  20. Booba

    Booba New Member

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    http://garynyc.zenfolio.com/p318347609/e7b85120

    I would appreciate any help on my Mannlicher 1903 rifle. I think at least to me there are special factory extras on this rifle. It has a popup tang sight and a rear sight with five folding leaf sights. The front sight has a spring cover that folds over and with a finger nail you lift up the sight post. The stock shows quite a bit of wear but no cracks. The stock and barrel have the same 4 diget serial number. The bore shows strong rifleing. If I have the stock refinished does the rifle lose value? If I decide to sell it what would the range of value be.

    Link to the Mannlicher photos is included here

    http://garynyc.zenfolio.com/p318347609

    Thanks for your help. Booba
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
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