Discussion in 'Competition Shooting Forum' started by Tony22-250, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Tony22-250

    Tony22-250 New Member

    Jan 9, 2009
    Snellville, GA
    I have recently made shots at 800 yards and and had to correct on the fly after my cold bore shot holding 2 mil high 2 mil right putting shots on target but for some reason i cant find an equation to find how many 1/4 MOA clicks 2 mils equal at 800 yards or just a chart that shows how many click 1 mill equals at known distances if any one can direct me in the right direction or give me a straight froward answer that would be greatly appreciated!
  2. Straight forward answer? I'm not so sure about that but I'll at lease try to answer…

    Mathematically, at 800 yards one mil equals about 28.8 inches and one minute equals about 8 inches. Therefore, to move the strike of the bullet 28 inches at 800 yards, adjust your scope 14 clicks (1/4 minute) and you may want to ad on another click depending on your shooting data. Also, do the math and become intimately familiar with it; it needs to be second nature in order to make setting your sight dope quick and fluid.

    Now, that being said, I would highly recommend using the mil-dot system for ranging only and, after you've established your range to target, forget them for shooting. Once you start pulling the trigger think only distance, MOA and clicks. Work on your sight adjustment skills first, only using point-of-aim point-of-impact, and once you become comfortable with that then you can throw hold-over by mils into the equation. Above all practice, practice and more practice…

  3. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    Akron, Ohio
    I know nothing about scopes...never used one, never had any training with them but i have a question. Not to confuse the issue but just for my own edification: I thought there were 6400 mils in a circle Therefore if there are 360 degrees in a circle there would be 360 (degrees) X 60 minutes (per degree)=21,600 minutes in a circle. 21,600 divided by 6400 = 3.375 minutes per mil. Is that correct? The reason I ask is because I'd like to get into some long range target shooting but I don't have a clue about what kind of scope to get and how to use it. Seems like an awful lot of math to do in your head when at the range unless you carry a calculator. Also, how do you determine wind velocity. I know at the ranges being discussed a little wind can make a big difference.
  4. Ok, here is the math. Radians are angular measurements based on the circumference/radius ratio of a circle. There are 2 pi, or 6.2832, radians in 360 degrees. A mil-radian, or mil, is 1/1000 radian, or 6283.2 mils in a full circle. The military has rounded that up to 6400 mils in a circle for simplicity. And then yes, there are 3.375 minutes per mil.

    Now, all that being said, if you're just starting out in long range shooting, forget about mils and mil-dots for a while. They are used for estimating unknown ranges and you really need to start out on a known distance range. Yes, mil-dots can be used for hold over and moving targets but that comes much later.

    To begin with, there is no need for a scope to start out at long range. All you need is a good rifle with fully adjustable sights. An M1 Garand is a great starter rifle. But most of all, go out to your local range where they are shooting 600 to 1,000 yards and watch a match or two, ask questions and learn what you can.

    Once a scope does come into the picture I find that simple is better. A lot of beginners go out and buy the most expensive optics with all the bells and whistles they can find. Don't go cheep, but a lot of people make things way to complicated and it's really not needed. I prefer fixed power scopes, 6x to 10x is just fine, and with basic elevation and windage adjustment knobs.

    Reading the wind is a skill that must be developed right away, it usually takes a long time to truly master and experience is the real teacher. It's really best to find an accomplished long range shooter to start you off with reading wind and weather. Also, any real rifle range will have flags for estimating wind speed and direction. It always a good place to start but the real telling sign is usually mirage. Turn your sporting scope slightly out of focus and you'll see it.
  5. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    Akron, Ohio
    Thank you USMC, that is helpful info There is one rifle I have been considering. It's a CZ 550 in 30'06. I Just like the looks of it...beautifil turkish walnut mannlicher stock. But it only has a 20" barrel and that seems way too short for long range target. What do you think?


    MODEL: CZ 550 FS SAFETY: 3-Position Safety
    TYPE: Rifle SIGHTS: Iron, Adjustable
    CALIBER: 30-06 BARREL LENGTH: 20.5"
    ACTION: Bolt Action WEIGHT: 7.41 lbs
    STOCK: Turkish Walnut, Bavarian Style Mannlicher Stock PACKAGING:
    CAPACITY: 5+1 FEATURES: Sling Swivel Studs
    CHOKES: FEATURES: Steel Muzzle Cap
    CHAMBER: BUTT PLATE: Vented Recoil Pad
    MUZZLE: RECEIVER: Blue w/19MM Dovetail Milled into Receiver

    It's a little on the pricy side for my budget but doable. My other thought was to just buy a good Mauser 98. The only M1's I have seen that look in decent shape are close to the price of an M1A1 and that is just more than I can swing.
  6. Any time ROMT. CZ makes a great rifle and this would be a fine hunting piece but I wouldn't try in for target shooting. The barrel is a bit short and it really is to light for target work.

    Here are a couple of listings on BrandX that I would consider good examples of entry lever long range rifles. Nobody would be in any danger on winning a national championship with them but they would be good to learn on.

    Item #126198930
    Item #126081679
  7. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    Akron, Ohio
    Thanks for the links USMC. I checked those rifles out but they are on the steep side for me. I may go for a good surplus mauser like from Mitchells.
  8. Check out the local gun shows. It you can find an old '03 sporter with adjustable sights your there.