Modifying C&R transferred firearms

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by Buckaroo Banzai, Mar 19, 2007.

  1. Buckaroo Banzai

    Buckaroo Banzai New Member

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    Hi All,

    Fairly new to the C&R community and came up with a question that I thought was a no brainer, until I started checking around -- Now I'm confused --

    I recently purchased 2 (unissued) Yugo SKS's 1 to keep stock and 1 to modify. While searching for a muzzle brake, I came across several websites that talk about the legality of modding the SKS. Since it would seem from what I have read, that changing a C&R firearm in pretty much anyway negates its status as a C&R firearm, I am now wondering what I can "legally" do to guns I bought with my CR license????

    The SKS's are an extreme case for modification, in that you have 922r to deal with once you change the firearm and its not CR compliant anymore, but what about a mauser or mosin? If I wanted to put a new bolt, stock, even barrel on my 98 or 91/30 can I legally do that to rifles I purchased with my C&R? Will ATF have a fit if they inspect me and my 91/30 is in a synth stock, with a cut down barrel, and scope mounted? I realize that once I modify a firearm and it isn't CR compliant anymore I couldn't transfer it as a CR weapon, but how does modding it affect my inventory in the eyes of the ATF?




    thanks in advance!!!!
  2. Mosin_Nagant_Fan

    Mosin_Nagant_Fan Active Member

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    Well, I don't know anything about C&R, but to legally have a modified SKS, you need to have 6 major parts made in the U.S. which includes the trigger group (which usually counts for 3 parts) stock (main part and upper handguard only counts as 1) barrel and gas tube (I think) is all I can think of.

    There may be others, but those are the ones off the top of my head.
  3. Buckaroo Banzai

    Buckaroo Banzai New Member

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    yep on the sks there are about 16-17 ATF listed compliance parts, (depending on which reference you are using) as long as only 10 of them are import parts, your golden.

    as far as my modification of CR firearms question, I found an answer elsewhere on the Internet and my local ATF office confirmed.

    It really was a no-brainer,,

    In case anyone else out there doesn't already know:

    Basically if you modify a C&R purchased firearm and its no longer C&R compliant you have to transfer it off your Bound Book. Basically the ATF said to transfer it off to your personal collection and comment that it was being customized. Once its off your bound book you can treat it like any non-C&R firearm you own. As long as your modifications are legal (NFA, 922r) you should be good to go.
  4. berto64

    berto64 Active Member

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    Hey Buckaroo! Welcome to TFF.

    I'm a big fan. My kids got sick & tired watching 'Adventures Across the Eighth Dimension' I played it so much.

    Give my best to the 'Hong Kong Cavaliers.

    All of my SKS's are preban so all the verboten stuff is already there.
  5. e3mrk

    e3mrk New Member

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    There is very little you can do to modify a C+R Firearm that dosnt remove it'e C+R status.
    The BATF rules are that the Weapon must remain in it's original configuration/condition to remain C+R.
    If your Rifle has a Bayonet Lug and you remove it the Rifle is no longer C+R.
    Now in some cases if you add a part that can be removed and causes no permanent alteration it may be legal.But if you sell it you must return it to full C+R condition before you sell it or you must go through a Full FFL Dealer like any modern Firearm sale.
  6. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Not to be anything but a 'Devil's Advocate," but how do you account for the Mosin Nagant M91/30 "Barreled Actions" with "carbine length barrels" that are sold as "C&R?" Or all the "K98 Mauser Barreled actions?" Or the "Part's Guns" C&Rs of which I have bought MANY.

    It would seem to me that the ACTION is what is C&R, not what will become of that action after I "restore" it to whatever configuration I will end up with.

    Plus the sheer NUMBERS of C&R M44s and M91/30s that have been converted with bent bolts, scopes, synthetic stocks, etc, much less Romanian or Yugo SKS's with all the Tapco crap, by MOST of us Crufflers should mean SOMEBODY should have gotten into trouble by now....:cool:
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2007
  7. e3mrk

    e3mrk New Member

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    Actually the rule is that to remain C+R the Weapon must stay in the Original configuration in it was made.
    They may be stretching the rules when selling a action or Barreled Receiver as C+R but if they are restored then the finished Weapon would be C+R.
    If You were to customize a C+R Weapon like a Rifle by installing a fiberglass Stock or other major change then it most likely would not be C+R.
    Another example would be the customization of the SKS, Once You put a ATI stock on them they are no longer C+R. Also You have to play the ten or less game with them.
  8. 22WRF

    22WRF Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing written in 27 CFR that says that!

    I wish folks wouldn't try making up their own rules :(
  9. Tom Militano

    Tom Militano New Member

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    I've got a C&R license and I stay so confused about what you can and can't do I'm about ready to chuck the thing in the trash. You can buy aftermarket scope mounts that require no modifications, but that's not an original configuration. Does that negate the C&R status? Does changing to a 9mm barrel on a CZ52 change it's status? I've seen sportorized versions of rifles listed as C&R.
  10. TRAP55

    TRAP55 Active Member

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    I got a question.
    Pre 1898 rifles are classified as antiques.
    Example: M39 Finn Mosin has a Hex receiver dated 1896, but was re-stocked and re-barreled from it's original 1891 model configuration in 1968 as a "sneak" rifle.
    It's not in it's original configuration, has a 1968 stamp on the barrel, and a 1896 stamp on the receiver.
    Does the 1968 stamp exclude it from being Antique?
    Does the same stamp exclude it from being C&R?
  11. Tom Militano

    Tom Militano New Member

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    Welcome to the confused club.
  12. 22WRF

    22WRF Well-Known Member

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    Trap

    Here is a 1893 Turk Rifles updated in the 1930s.
    Sportsmansguide.
    Since this gun was made for the Ottoman Empire prior to 1898, no Federal Firearm License is required. We can ship it right to your doorstep,


    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=235111
  13. TRAP55

    TRAP55 Active Member

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    Just curious to see what kinda answers I got. Pre 1898 receivers remain Antiques no matter what is done to them.;)
    I hear the argument both ways on modifying a C&R gun and it remaining C&R, but I still haven't seen where the Law says that?
  14. Tom Militano

    Tom Militano New Member

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    Me either Trap55. I'm not trying to be a pain in the neck, but there are several other sites where I've seen similar questions asked and the answers go in both diesctions, it's OK, it's not OK to modify them.
  15. TRAP55

    TRAP55 Active Member

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    Tom, the bad part is, it always seems to come down to the particular ATF agent and his interpretation.
    Kinda makes ya a little angry when you read the words "shall not be infringed".

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