Montana to secede from the union?

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by OneFatCat, May 11, 2009.

  1. OneFatCat

    OneFatCat New Member

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    Will Montana secede from the union over this?



    Montana Governor Signs New Gun Law
    Executive Summary – The USA state of Montana has signed into power a revolutionary gun law. I mean REVOLUTIONARY. The State of Montana has defied the federal government and their gun laws. This will prompt a showdown between the federal government and the State of Montana. The federal government fears citizens owning guns. They try to curtail what types of guns they can own. The gun control laws all have one common goal – confiscation of privately owned firearms.

    Montana has gone beyond drawing a line in the sand. They have challenged the Federal Government. The fed now either takes them on and risks them saying the federal agents have no right to violate their state gun laws and arrest the federal agents that try to enforce the federal firearms acts. This will be a world-class event to watch. Montana could go to voting for secession from the union, which is really throwing the gauntlet in Obamas face. If the federal government does nothing they lose face. Gotta love it.

    Important Points – If guns and ammunition are manufactured inside the State of Montana for sale and use inside that state then the federal firearms laws have no applicability since the federal government only has the power to control commerce across state lines. Montana has the law on their side. Since when did the USA start following their own laws especially the constitution of the USA, the very document that empowers the USA.

    Silencers made in Montana and sol in Montana would be fully legal and not registered. As a note silencers were first used before the 007 movies as a device to enable one to hunt without disturbing neighbors and scaring game. They were also useful as devices to control noise when practicing so as to not disturb the neighbors.

    Silencers work best with a bolt-action rifle. There is a long barrel and the chamber is closed tight so as to direct all the gases though the silencer at the tip of the barrel. Semi-auto pistols and revolvers do not really muffle the sound very well except on the silver screen. The revolvers bleed gas out with the sound all over the place. The semi-auto pistols bleed the gases out when the slide recoils back.

    Silencers are maybe nice for snipers picking off enemy soldiers even though they reduce velocity but not very practical for hit men shooting pistols in crowded places. Silencers were useful tools for gun enthusiasts and hunters.

    There would be no firearm registration, serial numbers, criminal records check, waiting periods or paperwork required. So in a short period of time there would be millions and millions of unregistered untraceable guns in Montana. Way to go Montana.

    Discussion – Let us see what Obama does. If he hits Montana hard they will probably vote to secede from the USA. The governor of Texas has already been refusing Federal money because he does not want to agree to the conditions that go with it and he has been saying secession is a right they have as sort of a threat. Things are no longer the same with the USA. Do not be deceived by Obama acting as if all is the same, it is not.

    Text of the New Law
    HOUSE BILL NO. 246

    INTRODUCED BY J. BONIEK, BENNETT, BUTCHER, CURTISS, RANDALL, WARBURTON

    AN ACT EXEMPTING FROM FEDERAL REGULATION UNDER THE COMMERCE CLAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES A FIREARM, A FIREARM ACCESSORY, OR AMMUNITION MANUFACTURED AND RETAINED IN MONTANA; AND PROVIDING AN APPLICABILITY DATE.

    BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MONTANA:

    Section 1. Short title. [Sections 1 through 6] may be cited as the "Montana Firearms Freedom Act".

    Section 2. Legislative declarations of authority. The legislature declares that the authority for [sections 1 through 6] is the following:

    (1) The 10th amendment to the United States constitution guarantees to the states and their people all powers not granted to the federal government elsewhere in the constitution and reserves to the state and people of Montana certain powers as they were understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889. The guaranty of those powers is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.

    (2) The ninth amendment to the United States constitution guarantees to the people rights not granted in the constitution and reserves to the people of Montana certain rights, as they were understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889. The guaranty of those rights is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.

    (3) The regulation of intrastate commerce is vested in the states under the 9th and 10th amendments to the United States constitution, particularly if not expressly preempted by federal law. Congress has not expressly preempted state regulation of intrastate commerce pertaining to the manufacture on an intrastate basis of firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition.

    (4) The second amendment to the United States constitution reserves to the people the right to keep and bear arms as that right was understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889, and the guaranty of the right is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.

    (5) Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution clearly secures to Montana citizens, and prohibits government interference with, the right of individual Montana citizens to keep and bear arms. This constitutional protection is unchanged from the 1889 Montana constitution, which was approved by congress and the people of Montana, and the right exists, as it was understood at the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889.

    Section 3. Definitions. As used in [sections 1 through 6], the following definitions apply:

    (1) "Borders of Montana" means the boundaries of Montana described in Article I, section 1, of the 1889 Montana constitution.

    (2) "Firearms accessories" means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including but not limited to telescopic or laser sights, magazines, flash or sound suppressors, folding or aftermarket stocks and grips, speedloaders, ammunition carriers, and lights for target illumination.

    (3) "Generic and insignificant parts" includes but is not limited to springs, screws, nuts, and pins.

    (4) "Manufactured" means that a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition has been created from basic materials for functional usefulness, including but not limited to forging, casting, machining, or other processes for working materials.

    Section 4. Prohibitions. A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Montana and that remains within the borders of Montana is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured in Montana from basic materials and that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported from another state. Generic and insignificant parts that have other manufacturing or consumer product applications are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition, and their importation into Montana and incorporation into a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured in Montana does not subject the firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition to federal regulation. It is declared by the legislature that basic materials, such as unmachined steel and unshaped wood, are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition and are not subject to congressional authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition under interstate commerce as if they were actually firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition. The authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce in basic materials does not include authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition made in Montana from those materials. Firearms accessories that are imported into Montana from another state and that are subject to federal regulation as being in interstate commerce do not subject a firearm to federal regulation under interstate commerce because they are attached to or used in conjunction with a firearm in Montana.

    Section 5. Exceptions. [Section 4] does not apply to:

    (1) A firearm that cannot be carried and used by one person;

    (2) A firearm that has a bore diameter greater than 1 1/2 inches and that uses smokeless powder, not black powder, as a propellant;

    (3) ammunition with a projectile that explodes using an explosion of chemical energy after the projectile leaves the firearm; or

    (4) a firearm that discharges two or more projectiles with one activation of the trigger or other firing device.

    Section 6. Marketing of firearms. A firearm manufactured or sold in Montana under [sections 1 through 6] must have the words "Made in Montana" clearly stamped on a central metallic part, such as the receiver or frame.

    Section 7. Codification instruction. [Sections 1 through 6] are intended to be codified as an integral part of Title 30, and the provisions of Title 30 apply to [sections 1 through 6].

    Section 8. Applicability. [This act] applies to firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition that are manufactured, as defined in [section 3], and retained in Montana after October 1, 2009.
  2. glocknut

    glocknut New Member

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    THE FORUM MASCOTT...
    I was hoping Texas would be the first to leave the evil empire...but Montana is ok... a little cold but still ok.

    mike
    gn
  3. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    Ohhh crap, no machine guns, ahhhhh. So much for moving to MT. Maybe Utah?
  4. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    That one can be twisted to include shotguns.

    Montana is not talking about seccession. They are talking about taking back and retaining their rightful place in the United States of America/

    Pops
  5. berto64

    berto64 Active Member

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    It's a big move toward reclaiming their State's rights and Sovereignty.

    Let's hope others join in soon.
  6. alhefner

    alhefner New Member

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    Are there any actual firearms manufacturers in Montana?
  7. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    Not YET!
    As far as I'm aware that is.
  8. islenos

    islenos New Member

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    Secession would follow if the US attempts to quell States Rights by the end of a bayonet.
  9. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    I think it is only a matter of time before Texas does the same thing.The sooner the better.
  10. obxned

    obxned New Member

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    No, Montana is solidly in the Union, but that doesn't mean that they are in any kind of relationship with an unconstitutional pseudo-government occupying the buildings in DC, lead by a person who will not show proof of his eligibility for holding the highest office of the land.
  11. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Probably not just yet, but I imagine there will be some overnight pop-ups that make guns from drawings that are now public domain (which includes everything ever invented by John Browning).
  12. XShooter

    XShooter New Member

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    I was reading (somewhere) that there are at least two other states planning on doing this also and I do believe one of them was Texas. In the thing I was reading, it said that they are waiting to see what happens between the fed and Montana first.

    I do not believe Montana is posturing to separate from the union. I believe they are just telling the liberals where to stick it!
  13. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Accessories are part of this -
    I would not think it would be horribly difficult to set up factories to produce high-capacity magazines, silencers, etc.

    Also, the definitions of 'manufactured' are kinda loose.
    I remember when factories would import part A from China and part B from China, set up a garage-business here in the states of sticking the two parts together, and mark them "Made in USA".

    I can see little garage businesses opening in Montana that assemble two or three major parts groups together which are shipped in from the present arms manufacturers and stamping the end result "Made in Montana".
    So -
    One vet assembling 1911's from boxes of parts, knocking them out in less than one minute each, instantly turns a federal headache into a simple no-records no-waiting OTC purchase -

    I LOVE this idea!!
  14. 38 special

    38 special New Member

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    Lots of wild country and not alot of stinkin cities in Montana. GREAT state.Good for them.Best WIshes.
  15. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    The frame or receiver coming from outside Montana would bear a serial number and alerady be classed as a firearm for federal purposes. So, the fame of that 1911 would have to be made in Montana by a company which sold NO product outside the borders of Montana.

    If they produced even one with a serial number registered with the feds, then all the rest would fall under fed jurisdiction, also. The courts have decisions which uphold this. Think Medical Marijuana. The argument the court made was that it was too hard to detirmine place of origin and therefore ALL marijuana in the state was regulated. Even that which was still growing in the patient's plot.

    If the frame or receiver was made offshore, it would have to reach Montana without crossing any state line. Pretty tough job. :p

    This will have to be handled very carefully or we will lose the court case.

    Pops
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2009
  16. KING64

    KING64 New Member

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  17. kerk

    kerk New Member

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    I agree, but let's not just 'hope'. It takes pressure from voters. Again, I encourage everyone to write your state reps. Support the issue if it is in progress in your state, and if it is not, write them and ask them why they are not following suit by reaffirming their 10th amendment right.

    And again, I especially request my fellow board members in Florida to do so. Our current governor is a Rino who wishes to cooperate with Obama and the dems. I have written 3 times to state representative Debbie Boyd, and twice to state senator Steve Olerich about this matter. I have not had one reply, or even an acknowledgment from either one.
  18. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

  19. KING64

    KING64 New Member

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    It just worked for me. Montana Firearms Manufacturers and Gunsmiths. Lists a number of MT manufacturers including Cooper.
  20. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    I tried 3 times:eek:

    Works now.:rolleyes:

    Texas or Montana, whichever leaves 1ST.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2009
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