More caliber questions

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Gun Geezer, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Well-Known Member

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    Groan...I seem to remember recently a 9-yr old shooting himself dead at a Range Day with a mini-uzi on full auto...

    Kids & Full-auto, just don't mix...sooner or later something will go horribly wrong...

    Famous last words...Hey y'all, watchis!!
  2. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Son at 12 and daughter at 11 both shot expert with my 1911A1 NM pistol in 45 ACP. I guess I forgot to teach them how to jerk the gun to anticipate recoil.

    When I last shot with the local police at the range Todd, the asst. chief of police was running 2 of his new members and one vet through their annual qualifications. I shot their Glock in 40, they shot my 45 and both my 357 and 41 mag revolvers. Those that shot good with the 40 cal also shot good with my guns and vice versa. If they were having troubles with the Glock they had trouble with the other guns too. Way to much emphasis made on caliber and power and not nearly enough on fundamentals.

    One youngster did mention that the 41 was a bit much, he was also the only one of the group who was a city kid and not a farm boy. :D

    If I see it on TV I have to start shaking the salt over everything they say.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
  3. brad87

    brad87 Former Guest

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    I was 6 when I shot my first full auto. Was a BREN gun (thats the SMG, yeah? Not the drum on top rifle, I'm pretty sure thats the STEN) and I had my dad stand behind me because the stock was too long so i had to tuck it under my arm, and i didnt want to fall over. Yes, I asked HIM to stand behind ME. I shot an uzi pistol not long after and surprised all the guys at the match because I was the only one to manage to squeeze off 2 round bursts, and therefore was shooting them into oblivion with it because I could keep all my shots inside the C ring. The only full auto I was not allowed to shoot belonged to a guy who wasn't a regular at the matches and hadn't seen me shoot all the others, and he said if I had a couple more years on me he would have let me. I shot more full auto's before the age of 10 than most shoot in their lives.
  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    sten has the mag on the left side , bren had a banana mag on top

    lewis gun had the drum on top

    my great Uncle at Tobruk

    [​IMG]

    25 lbs with a full clip if i remember , i trained with one and the GPMG M60 back when
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  5. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Guest

    The recoil of the 9mm and 40 to me is harder to me than that of a 45acp.

    If you're shooting standard loads The 45 is more of a push and the 9mm and 40 are more of a snap.
  6. 45Auto

    45Auto Active Member

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    The late Jeff Cooper was a great advocate of the .45 M1911. However, he advised shooters to outfit themselves with only as much power as they could effectively shoot in a combat situation.
  7. user

    user Active Member

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    All good reports. However, the big, heavy, slow-moving .45 ACP has a very steep trajectory, so you have to be really good at estimating the elevation adjustment if the target is moving towards you or away from you. Terrific for shooting stationary pieces of paper on a range. At the other end of the spectrum, the .357 magnum (particularly with a 125 grain bullet) has a pretty flat trajectory but way too much flash-bang-recoil. Commercially available 9mm and .38 spc. have relatively flat trajectories and sufficient kinetic energy at fifty yards to crush human bone, so under normal circumstances are more than adequate at normal defensive range. Unless the target is wearing body armor or a piece of a boiler under his poncho, those will work pretty well. Optimizing for any particular attribute results in impairment in other attributes. Study the ballistics charts for the brands and loads you're interested in and pick the compromise that suits your purposes.
  8. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    9" drop at 100 yards, anybody can do it, just need to pay attention to the basics of grip, breath, sights, trigger.

    [​IMG]
  9. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

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    great shooting' Grump!
  10. ignats

    ignats Member

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    The 1911 whether it be Colt or clone is a short recoil operated pistol. I don't know which S&W pistol you were shooting but the S&W Military & Police is also a short recoil pistol. It can be had in .22, 9mm, .357 Sig and .45 ACP. The full size version with 5" bbl weighs 26 ounces. The 40 S&W version is 24 ounces. The Colt unloaded weight is 2lb 7 ounces or 39 ounces. (Series 70 Colt). That's 15 ounces heavier than the S&W and that is what I think most people are feeling, the apparent recoil.

    The energy from the 40 S&W is fairly close to the .45 ACP. I converted a Super 38 (that had been converted to .38 wadcutter) to .40 S&W by buying a barrel from Fusion. It was pretty much a drop in and works fine. Fun to shoot too.

    .40 S&W
    Velocity Mass Energy
    1140 155 446.8456078
    980 165 351.5217391
    1000 180 399.2901508

    .45 ACP
    Velocity Mass Energy
    1140 165 475.6743567
    950 185 370.3693434
    890 230 404.1326531
  11. ignats

    ignats Member

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    He also had a lot to do with the Bren 10 (remember Sonny Crockett on Miami Vice?) which fired a 10mm cartridge. A bit strong for most people. Hence the .40 S&W.
  12. Iron Eagle

    Iron Eagle Well-Known Member

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    I have been considering a Stoeger Cougar in .40. It weighs 36 ounces, so recoil should not be an issue. 45's are still a bit steep right now. I know that I want one, particularly a xdm. Oh yeah!
  13. ignats

    ignats Member

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    Another idea. The slide came from a Colt 38 Super that had been converted to a .38 Spl wadcutter target gun (these were used in a three pistol match or 2800 match). When that work was done, the gunsmith had to open up the face of the breech to accommodate the larger rim area of the .38 special cartridge which will allow the .40 S&W to fit (the case head of the .40 is just a little bit smaller in diameter than the .38 Spl.). I bought a Fusion barrel chambered in .40 S&W and had to do a little fitting but not much. It was almost a drop in fit.

    [​IMG]

    The Colt 38 Super frame was eventually mated up to a Series 70 38 Super slide and remains that way. That left me with the other slide which as luck would have it, fit perfectly on an Argentine Sistema frame that you see above.
  14. skullfr

    skullfr New Member

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    no matter what you use marksmanship trumps caliber everytime.If you look at all the shootings caliber is not as important as placement.I practice aiming at the sniper triangle.It is the point at the base of the neck and the 2 nipples.A bullet in this area hit a vital that should incapacitate shortly.I feel the 10 ring on a shiloette is too low.The armpit hold is much better for putting rounds into a vital like the heart,lungs or spine.If drawn and fired from retention the shot will be low but should give enough time to backup while firing zippering up the main trunk.My main carry is a snub .357.I use 140 grn hydrashock.This round I found for me is good for it will give deep enough penetration but not excessive.The recommended depth by different agencies is 10-15 inches preferred.I usually get approx 13-14 inches.
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