Most under rated weapon?

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2003.

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    17th FA Bn
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    (8/28/01 6:19:05 pm)
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    Could the M-16 be one of the most under rated weapons of all time? I wouldn't say it is the best assault weapon in the world. But is it a much better weapon than it's reputation, especialy in it's current a-2 configuration?

    Much of the m-16's bad press came from early in it's service life when all the bugs had not been worked out, and the army used a different gun powder than the weapon had been designed to use. The weapon had a reputation for jamming. Most of these bugs should have been worked out with the introduction of the a-1 and a-2 variants, and improvements in ammunition.

    The second big knock on the m-16 was lack of stopping or knock down power. Is there any hard info on lack of stopping power or is this just ancedotel?

    The third knock on the M-16 is lack of range, especialy compared to the M-1 and M-14 rifles. The army did studies which showed that the majority of combat shooting took place at less than 200 yards, and that volume of power was usualy the deciding factor in a fire fight. The m-16 is an easier rifle to control at high rates of fire. A soldier can carry a lot more m-16 ammo than the bigger 30-06 or .308 ammo.

    The experts at the Department of Defense have stuck with the M-16 for over thirty years. They must feel it has some merit. I think I heard on some program that the M-16 is the longest serving service rifle in U.S. history. After the big defense build up of the early eighties if the Army and Marines were not satisfied with the M-16 they could have replaced it for at least the infantry.

    Edited by: 17th FA Bn at: 8/29/01 8:08:19 am

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (8/28/01 7:10:12 pm)
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    First I would have to ask you the last time the Government admitted to a mistake. I wonder why the heat is on to switch back to the .45acp in the 1911....ammo carry weight??

    The story of the helocopter downing in Mogadishu tells the real sory of stopping power provided by the M16, as a M14 had to cover all their ass`s and make the kills.....while the plastic guns rattled away for naught on human targets.

    I believe you can carry more ammo, but no hits make for more ammo and require more hits on a selected target.

    My choice would be the "M14K" Selectfire
    This rifle sports the M60 gas system, has a 11-1/2" barrel flash hider and almost zero muzzle climb, due to the M60 gas system. 55grain .223 or 165grain .308. Longer range, harder hitting and a three to one ratio......are you really carrying more ammo??? Has the Government even been wrong?? Remember, people who spray and pray......mostly pray. LTS
    "am not" R2

    17th FA Bn
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    (8/28/01 8:52:15 pm)
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    Liktoshoot, why wouldn't you trust your govenment, they just want to help you and make your life happier and better. It's to bad that Pres. Clinton, the most honest president is no longer in office.

    I've heard that the original M-14 was very hard to control in the full-auto mode.

    the M-16 round is supposed to have 2/3 the stopping power of a .308 round. Those figures are "on paper", so if you are attacked by paper you should be in good shape.

    I read "Citizen Soldier" several years ago. There are several quotes by GI's that they very seldom used aimed fire. Even then they "prayed and sprayed".

    I havn't seen much on the fire fight in Mogadishu. I heard two Rangers received the Medal of Honor for that action. Who was using an M-14? I heard some one had a bolt action sniper rifle in .308.

    Edited by: 17th FA Bn at: 8/29/01 8:02:54 am

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (8/28/01 9:40:58 pm)
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    The model "K" M14 is a modified version of the full size, very hard to come by, but they are out there for around 5K. Simular in length to a CAR and almost zero muzzle climb. Everything looks good on paper, but the real reason for the mousegun was to wound and not kill....though it will. Fighting and war is now about who can be the nicer guy, no break and kill things...A PC war....very clean warfare. I remember a good saying that stuck with me......don`t remember who told it to me or when, it was long ago. "When you run out of ammo, which makes a better club." If I remember correctly(probably not) the Rangers you speak of died in the saving of the beater crew, after they were overcome and dry on ammo, the covering fire from afar did little to support them from the mouseguns. When a person fights for a cause, no matter how perverted.....he has a mission. When you are fighting, just because you are told to do so or you are only there for protection, the mission rules are distorted and much of the drive is lost. I`m unsure of the snipers there and was under the impression that their location did not allow for direct coverfire and that the M14`s laid down deadly fire in the mass`s that attemped to kill all onboard the beater and it`s crew. These two Rangers had a mission, to save, and no mission is greater. I will lug the few extra pounds with a smile, although spray and pray is good.....I like my spraying with some gusto behind it. Besides, your only as fast as the slowest man, whats he humpin. I always find it funny that nearly every mission afar.....usally includes a M14 usally two, why? LTS
    "am not" R2

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (8/28/01 10:13:56 pm)
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    I still don't know, after all the 16 has been in service longer than ANY other service rifle since the 1873 trapdoor...maybe EVER.

    And that ammo capacity really mattered in Iraq when those Beret teams got compromised...they were making beaucoup kills at 500 meters, none of the ragheads got close enough to hit any beanies with their AKs...the only ones to even get close in return fire was the Bedouins with their SMLEs and Mausers.

    I'm sure any of those teams swear by their 16s, it saved their butts...

    Of course, with a couple of other 16s (F models) that just happened to be available too...

    Either way, the score was M16 - 150+kills, AK47 - 0. And the odds were 20-1.
    Well, I didn't win the Powerball, so I still collect Russian Crap and variants thereof. ( And am darn happy I can!)

    Spanish Cruffler
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    Posts: 72
    (8/29/01 8:28:19 am)
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    Frankly, I think it is a jawbone of an ass. If some ol' dude in biblical times could kill a thousand men with one - it must surely be under rated.

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 837
    (8/29/01 9:32:17 am)
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    If jawbones of asses were all that deadly, then politicians making speeches would be all we'd need for defense.

    gpostal
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    (8/29/01 2:56:44 pm)
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    how does the saying go { your weapon was purchased from the lowest bidder}

    warpig883
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    (8/30/01 7:04:55 pm)
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    If you guys are interested in the firefight in Somalia when then Blackhawk crashed go get the book Blackhawk Down. I do not remember the author but it is a great book. Talks about shooting the bad guys with the M16 and they keep coming.

    rayra
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    (9/13/01 12:05:42 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Most under rated weapon
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    caught a passing reference to a weapon on the History Ch the other day, spoke of a mortar that British used at some English airfields (during the Blitz?) - during a German attack on the field, it would fire a cable / parachute combo, cable would be suspended vertically for a short while, with the hopes that the strafing planes would hit.

    Anyone ever hear of this before??

    Rich
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