My new Stag Arms 5.56. (first time shooting it) ..problems

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by Gibill, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. Gibill

    Gibill New Member

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    Just purchased a stag model 3 on Saturday. Shot it for the 1st time today. Had a problem with jamb (after 1st round). Didn't eject empty case and couldn't budge charging handle without a struggle. After working with it, finally released and ejected the empty. Processed the 2nd round through the gun and same thing. Didn't eject the empty and struggled but not as long. Eventually, after 3 or 4 other rounds, and a small amount of rem oil around the chamber, I could "manually" eject the spent case. Shot total of 50 rounds. Still not ejecting emptys. Was instructed to shoot 62 grain (green tip) 223 rounds up to 100 or better to break the gun in. I noticed the empty cases coming out of the gun were just a tad warm. Not hot like other ar's I have shot before. And the barrel was just warm after each shot. Do I have to keep shooting to break it in or is there a problem? And why is it firing so cool in temp.?
  2. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    I bought a new one some time back and the only problem I had, and wont repeat, is that I was shooting "cheap" brand, steel cased ammo.
    Got on the good ammo and havent had not a single problem with the Stag 3.
    As far as accuracy and reliable, it likes the Remington UMC 55gr. and the American Eagle 55gr., as well as Hornady. 55 grain is all I shoot through mine as it seems to like it the best. (bullet grain wise)
  3. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

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    First of all, new gun...you can have a few problems until it's shot a little.

    You didn't say if you had done two important things before you shot it.

    Did you clean the bore and more importantly, the chamber? Most of the time a new gun needs a good chamber cleaning with a real chamber brush made for a AR that you twist around to clean the chamber and locking lugs.

    Lubrication is very important. Remove the bolt and oil it where on its surfaces where it slides inside the upper receiver. Many will advise using more oil than it really needed, but use enough that it's not gone after 10 rounds.

    If you didn't do both of the above that is most likely the cause of your troubles. That and it will break in and function smoother after you shoot it more.

    Fifty rounds of slow fire isn't much for a rifle designed to fire a few hundred a minute. So it not being hot after 50 rounds is normal.

    Still not ejecting...I just read that part again. Clean the chamber and then try to get a good look in there for anything rough, a ridge or burr that might be causing a problem. Check the extractor on the bolt.

    What exactly is happening when you fire it? It goes bang, bolt goes back, empty still in chamber. bolt picks up another round and jambs? More details will help solve the problem.

    I think that you might have meant to say 62 grain green tip 5.56. I don't know of any 223 green tip.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Ammo?? Handloads or factory? .223 or 5.56?
  5. Gibill

    Gibill New Member

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    Thanks for your response.......yes on cleaning chamber and barrel before shooting.....my bad they are 5.56 but yes, reloads. What takes place, gun fires and bolt doesn't seem to move. 1st few rounds even had trouble manually ejecting spent case and advancing next round. After around 6 rounds, manual ejection and advance new round worked fine. But gun acted like a single shot rifle. Before shooting, removed bolt ass'y and cleaned and lightly oiled. As well as cleaned barrel. Didn't take anything else apart nor clean anything else
  6. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    This is a "stab" in the dark here, but are you sure the gas tube is free of any debris?
  7. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

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    After reading this I agree with Zane, it sure sounds like a gas issue.

    Handloads? Could be a problem if they aren't loaded within spec, not sized properly....I don't know, it could a lot of things. Has the reloads been fired in another AR and they function properly? If not try some factory 5.56 brass ammo.

    But you also need to check the gas system. It's possible that the gas hole isn't drilled correctly or aligned with the gas block hole correctly or clogged.

    Or, give Stag a call.
  8. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    My son-in-law had the same kind of problem with his Stag Arms AR. I took it home and went through it but found nothing wrong. I then took it to the range and shot some of my reloads that work perfectly in my American Spirit Arms upper and guess what? They worked perfectly in his gun too. He had been shooting cheap ammo and it would not cycle the gun.

    First verify that gas is getting down the gas tube. Then make sure gas is coming in through the hole in the barrel to the gas tube. You can use compressed air in the gas tube at the chamber end and see if it comes out of the barrel gas hole. If that is right then go buy some better name brand ammo like Winchester or Remington and try the gun at the range. Gas guns are sensitive to powder type and load levels. If you are planning to use reloads search out a reloading manual recipe that was made exclusively for AR's. They are so popular that there is one for sure out there someplace.

    My load is for a varmint upper with a heavy barrel with a 7.5 twist (which will not shoot 52-55 grain bullets very well at all). I'll not list it here (too dangerous legally) but I will tell you that the bullets are Hornady 75 gr HPBT Match with Vihtavuori N140 powder in the range of 21.5 to 23.5 grs. All operated the gun flawlessly even when the gun was new, even the starting load. In your case just find an AR specific load and try it but first try good commercial ammo (no Russian or Wolf or XXX!). Steel cased ammo is probably not a good idea in this gun.

    As an aside, your chamber may need a small base sizing die but that is a last resort. A trip back to stag ARms should come first if the ammo change doesn't do it.

    LDBennett
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  9. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

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    I wondered what kind of testing Stag does with their guns and found the following. It says they only do "batch testing" and I found no reference to them test firing before shipping them off to customers. But I don't know for sure if the test fire or not, only that I couldn't find it said they they do.


    Stag batch tests their barrels, BCG's and bolts, not individually. Individual high pressure testing and magnetic particle inspecting each part is the best option for building these types of firearm parts but the process is very "expensive" on large scale productions. Since Stag knows its market (average joes and cops) so they batch test as a cost savings and back it up with a lifetime warranty to offset this feature. This might be a deal breaker for the hard core shooter and I dont blame them at all.
  10. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

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    I never test or break in a gun with handloads unless that load has operated properly in other fireams of similar design. Even then, you may have loads that aren't within spec but work in other already broken in guns.
    The manufacturer will probably tell you the same, buy some known quality ammo and try that before assuming it's the gun.
  11. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    I bought a new Browning BAR that had been factory test fired that had missed a complete step in the barrel's chamber machining process. It was even test fired by a gunsmith at one of their Service Centers and the problem not detected. I found it myself by inspection and measurements. When the gun went back to Browning with my findings, it came back obviously fixed.

    The point?

    Test firing may not reveal all the problems of a new gun. You, as the new owner, will find the problems and return the gun if necessary. Probably the most common problem with a new gun is ammunition. That is one reason (but the legal responsibility of the manufacture is the main reason, so they want to control the situation) manufacturers insist that you only use commercial ammo and often will reject the warrantee claim if you admit to using reloads.

    LDBennett
  12. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

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    True LD.

    But some AR manufacturers test fire far more than one round. One brand fires 40, 10 for accuracy and 30 for proper function. You don't have to worry about them shooting correctly when you buy them.

    Others do nothing, put them together and ship them off hoping they function properly.

    Just one more reason some ARs cost more than others. Some test every important component such as bolts and barrels on every gun, others just batch test one of out a hundred or so. Some give them extensive test firings, others nothing.

    I was trying to find out what Stag does with theirs to possibly eliminate a problem that would have shown up with a proper factory test firing such as a gas system problem.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  13. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Take the bolt apart and make sure the gas rings arent lined up at thier splits.

    What powder and projectile are you using?
  14. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

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    Not trying to point fingers or get personal at you Gibill, but want to point out some good advice to anyone that may read this thread.

    If anyone ever encounters a problem like this, do not put in another round until you break the gun down and at least take a good look at everything. It's much the same thought process as throwing in another fuse after one has blown and then just throwing the switch (and blowing another fuse). If a brand new gun exhibits serious symptoms on the first shot; take a few minutes to troubleshoot it and look for any defects, parts out of place, etc. I would also call the manufacturer or dealer that I bought it from ASAP.

    So, yes, a little bit of a slap on the back of the head ( which I hope isn't offensive, it's not meant to be ) Just want to keep you and everyone else safe and not end up causing possibly bigger problems. I witnessed a guy put 2 rounds of .22 down his 10/22, the first one didn't come out because he had his boresight left in the end of the barrel. He got a confused look after the first shot sounded funny and gave a quick glance in the chamber, then put it to his shoulder and pulled the trigger again. Made a darn ugly bulge about 10" up his barrel and ended his day at the range cussin. If something isn't right..... STOP and inspect, it takes just a couple minutes to break down most any gun.

    BTW - I didn't notice until now that you were an electrician, so I think you'll understand the fuse analogy well. For those that aren't electricians, 99.9% of the time you can figure out why the fuse blew with an ohm-meter and no power. Much safer to troubleshoot and much less costly/hazardous.

    I had a call this morning for a 115v brake coil and control transformer that had gotten toasty..... someone put a 10A fuse in the control circuit; when the brake coil shorted, the transformer burned up before the fuse could blow. The fuse was still good ! Come to find out, the original 1/2A fast acting fuse kept blowing ( several times ), so someone decided to put in a 10A time delay fuse. Cost of repair went from a $600 job to a $11,500 job in the matter of a few moments of bad judgement.
  15. gun runner

    gun runner Former Guest

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    Whats the difference between 5.56 and .223? :confused:
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