My new Stag Arms 5.56. (first time shooting it) ..problems

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by Gibill, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    I would NEVER fire steel cased ammo in any AR style rifle. I have seen way too many failure to ejects and stuck cases. The tollerances are too tight fir the steel cased ammo. It's great in the AK series of rifles but not in a .223 AR.
  2. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Look on the barrel of the gun you are shooting and use the ammo listed there, none other.

    Others will correct me if I am wrong but 556 is the military designation for M16 ammo and the new carbine based on the M16/AR platform. It is hotter than 223 but 223 ammo can be shot in a 556 gun (For safety sake it is not recommended in case you forget and put 556 in a 223).

    The safe bet is to only shoot the commercial ammo in the gun that is listed on the barrel. For reloading I believe you use the same dies and load levels for 556 as you do for 223. A research of reloading manuals will either confirm me or repudiate me but the reloading manual is the bible for reloading, not some guy on the internet.

    LDBennett
  3. gun runner

    gun runner Former Guest

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    I learned my lesson with that and I will never use steel cased ammo again.
  4. Gibill

    Gibill New Member

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    Thanks everybody for your insight......a slap behind the head (wooly worm) is needed every now and then......thanks.....keep the info coming!
  5. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

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    So have you tried other ammo? Like some factory loaded stuff.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  6. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    pressure and leade
  7. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Im still curious as to the powder and bullet used? I ask because i experienced this very same issue way beck when I first took ip ARs and feeding them handloads.. Had nothing really to do with the bullet and everything to do with the powder.
  8. Gibill

    Gibill New Member

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    To answer your question, JLA, I don't know the powder load.......the dealer I bought the gun from told me to use 5.56 green tip 62gr bullets......he told me where to buy them......they were in a plain clear plastic bag.......think I learned my lesson on buying ammo at a show.....yesterday, I contacted stag and they told me to send them the gun for their techs to go through to find the problem........it's boxed up ready to go out mon. A.m.......will keep u posted what I find out........i like JLA's observation about the possibility of the slots on the gas rings not being offset. Could that cause the spent shells coming out of the gun Luke warm? (as well as the barrel)
  9. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

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    [/QUOTE]..i like JLA's observation about the possibility of the slots on the gas rings not being offset. Could that cause the spent shells coming out of the gun Luke warm? (as well as the barrel)[/QUOTE]

    I dont think so. Most likely it is a gas port/alignment problem; the hot gasses are not coming back into the action. ( either not at all or not enough) It could be a problem with the ammo, but you'd have to check it in another gun to be sure.
  10. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    It certainly can. All the gas pressure would bypass thru the lined up splits.

    So i take it you purchased remanufactured ammo? If so heres my assessment. Ammo remanufacturers do not use the best powder for a particular cartridge. they use the most efficient. Which 99% of the time is also the fastest burning suitable to the cartridge being loaded. The problem you are having is a short pressure curve. pressur eis spiking and dropping back off before the gas system can get the bolt open to eject the empty and allow the spring to load a fresh round, instead its shortstroking and just closing back up on the spent case. What you need is a slower burning propellant.

    Heres my expereince with this very issue.

    Back in the winter of '08, both my FIL and myself began purchasing ARs. At the time I was reloading for them with 53 gr SMKs and Reloder 7. They worked fine thru the winter and on into the spring time. Probelms arose witht he 100+ degree days of the summer for us. the gas systems on ALL 3 of our ARs began shortstroking regularly. So i began diagnosing and changing parts. The bushmaster my FIL purchased was the only used rifle of the 3 so i upgraded his gas tube and the piston rings on the bolt head to a onepiece spiral ring. My 2 both got the one piece spiral ring. Next morning we hit the range and things were fine until lunchtime when everything started shortstroking again. Its 105 outside and im just about ready to melt $4K dollars worth of ARs with an acetylene torch. Oh well, we were out of ammo anyway. So i head home, took a cold shower and sat and began to sort and process spent .223 brass. I actualy stumbled upon the fix accidentally. I was nearly out of reloder 7 so i dug out my manuals to find a suitable powder that I did have and found that IMR4895 suited the 53 gr SMKs as well. but the median charge was in the 25 gr range where the median charge for reloder 7 was in the 22 gr range. So I did a little digging, which turned up nothing relevant to my issue. Anyhow, couple days past before we hit the range again and I all but forgot about it. It was a balmy 107 degree friday afternoon when we hit the range with the 4895 reloads. All 3 rifles ran perfect. So I called another reloading friend of mine (hes a green over on Reloaders nest forum) and we dicussed the issue right down to changing to 4895. He said that could very well be it. Seems the pressure curve of the reloder 7 reloads were right on the cusp of being enough for the AR to function properly. And the 4895 gave a higher port pressure for the gas system to work with which eliminated outr issues.

    Anyway, point im rather windedly making is this. Ammo reman's didnt even use reloder 7. i bet cha money they used something closer to IMR 4198 or something similar in burn speed, which is a very economical propellant to use in .223 reloads as you get more rounds per pound. Of course it comes at the expense of some autoloading rifle designs.

    My advice is for you to try a couple of different ammo brands with heavier bullets 62 gr and above, as heavier bullets generally get loaded with slower powders. Im bettn your reliability issue goes away.
  11. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Gibill:

    I still think it is ammo related. Commercial reloads are a crap game. Did they short the powder to get more reloads out of a can of powder?

    As I said before....Buy some good commercial ammo from Remington, or Winchester. Try it in the gun and I'd bet the gun is fine. You are wasting your time and money sending it back without first doing the commercial ammo test. The gun will probably come back "No problem found". But hey, we all get to choose.

    LDBennett
  12. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

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    I and others have told him this but he doesn't seem to read it...or want to believe it.
  13. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    "You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink it."


    LDBennett
  14. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

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    So true on so many levels...
  15. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    3/2 STA SS:

    My son-in-law had the same exact problem with his Stag Arms AR. He had only brought along some ammo that was bad. It got stored in a closed metal cabinet with an open container of pool chorine. The out side of the ammo showed signs of corrosion but it went bang (but apparently not hard enough!). When I shot my reloads that worked fine in my American Spirit Varmint AR in his gun it too worked fine. When a gun is gas or recoil operated the ammo load level, the gas pressure curve, and bullet mass all effect the operation.

    But what do I know??? I only reload for 30 different cartridges, several semi-auto rifles in bigger calibers (8mm Mauser, 308, 7mm Mag), and many semi-auto handguns.

    LDBennett
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