need help identifying a gun?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Zane71464, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    I have (what I believe) to be a russian Mosin Nagant bolt action rifle,
    7.62x54R caliber. I have had it for years now and shot it when I first got it and it does shoot very well. However, I'd like to know just what "make/model" it is, or who made it. I'm totally confused on indetifying the gun...is it russian or finnish made? I have attached some picture of it and they show about all the stampings on the gun. It just isnt stamped as to just exactly what it is...and doesnt even tell the caliber. I only know that for the fact I took it to the gun shop to buy ammo for it. The only stampings I can find on it without disassembling the gun totally is what the pictures show.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also would like to know the value of it as well...(gave $100 for it)

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  2. selleck2

    selleck2 New Member

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  3. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    I also was wondering the value of the gun? I would (assume) around 100 bucks without knowing much about it.
  4. selleck2

    selleck2 New Member

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    Most shops/dealers sell Mosins @89.00-139.00 so you are correct.Keep in mind if it is a finnish re-arsenal it may be slightly higher.
  5. CHW2021

    CHW2021 Member

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    Date shown is 1941, is it on barrel or reciever....post picture of reciever. The rear sight looks like a early (dragoon or westinghouse )one, the imperial crest shown makes me wonder, as this mark would not fit the 1941 date shown. Post detail pictures as the value is affected by age/import marks and reciever mfgr.
  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that triangle with the T in it is Tula Arsenal, which makes it Russian.

    edit: And then again, maybe not. I just checked my books, and while I can't find THAT mark, the Tula marks I do find, the triangle is going the other way. The point is at the top of the letter, not the bottom. So, I don't know. Although that does appear to be a Russian eagle, what I can see of it.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  7. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    My best guess if that you have a very early 1891, probably made in France by Chatellerault for the Czarist Imperial Army, captured from or purchased from the Russians and was rebuilt in 1941 with a Finnish TIKKA (T in inverted triangle) barrel. Collector interest should be pretty high on this piece - value, rough estimate, between $300 and $450 if you can find the right person.
  8. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, Ill get some more detailed pics on here of all marks on the reciever and so forth, unfortunatly my son has my camera, but will get more on here asap.
    I hope to get my camera back tonight. VERY interesting as to the posts that you all posted about this. I looked up a few that was on a site and they were all marked like russian 7.62x54rh and what so forth...just looks like this one would have more info stammed on it or something, however when I get my camera back I'll definatly get some more detailed pictures posted and maybe you guys can read more from it. I thank you all for the info thus far!
    Zane
  9. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    That is an old Model 1891, rebarrelled at Tula in 1941, when hundreds of thousands of the old rifles were being repaired and refurbished for the new war. A lot of history there but, unfortunately, not a lot of value. $100-150, I would guess.

    Jim
  10. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, Great! I was just getting ready to put more picturs on here. Well that's just what I was looking for Jim. Just one of those "need to know" kind of things.
    About 15yrs ago my cousin came out wanting to wheel and deal and had this gun with his others. He had a bunch of shells for it and we fired the daylights out of it and it was fun to shoot. But after buying a 45 long colt lever action and a Browning 12ga auto off him he thru in the Nagant. (imagine that) lol
    So it's been a wall hanger of sorts since then. But after staring at it in the den for some time I got it down and thought I'd try and find out just exactly what it was. Thank you and all the others for the good info on the gun!
    Zane
  11. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Oh...just had to post this picture as well...it's on the left side of the barrel and it is a... SA inside a square. Wonder what that means?

    Attached Files:

  12. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Well, here I am with egg all over my face; I really goofed. That Triangle T is a Finnish proof mark and the gun was captured by the Finns and rebarrelled in Finland. The SA is the Finnish Army property mark, and definitely establishes the Finnish connection. (There is no doubt about the rebarrelling; the old imperial eagle makes the original manufacturing date before the Communist revolution in 1917.)

    So, the rifle has even more history, and I apologize for my error, but the value, alas, has not increased.

    Jim
  13. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Oh okay, and no problem and thank you for the history information of it! I think its interesting just knowing about guns (older) and all guns history.
    The ones I do own I always try and find out what I can on them so when I pass them on to my son, it will save him alot of time...but on the other hand, that's the fun part of it not knowing and then taking the time to do the research and finding out. Maybe if more of the younger generation would take the time to do such things,,,well maybe they would be spending their time more wisely. That's what I tell me son anyways.
  14. Monkey Hollow

    Monkey Hollow New Member

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    As referenced by Jim K above, the "SA" is the property mark, and translated, literally means STATE ARSENAL.
  15. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, another good point/fact to add to my notes on it. Appreciate that.
  16. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Check my posting above from yesterday. The valuations I posted are valid...we've sold around 7000 Mosin Nagants over the past 12 years - but very few of the Finnish pieces - they all have sold for well over 300 bucks. We also sold, early last year - an original Model '91 that apparently excaped from Russia during the revolution and had no import marks - that one sold for over 800 bucks. DON'T sell yourself short on this piece - it is a desireable collector item.
  17. TRAP55

    TRAP55 New Member

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    Zane, you have a Finnish M91, late production, Tikkakoski ( T in the triangle)barrel.
    http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM91F.htm

    Pull the gun out of the stock and see what's stamped on the bottom of the tang. There will be a date and arsenal stamp that will tell you when and where it was made. The Czars crest stamp is intact (that's a plus), the Finns usually ground it off.
    Careful when you separate the gun from the wood, watch for metal shims in the receiver area, and possibly small pieces of felt in the barrel channel. If either are encountered, make sure they are placed where they came out of.
    You stole it for $100, if it were mine, $300 wouldn't talk me out of it. If that tang date is pre 1899 (antique classification), add another handful of cash to the value.
    No importers stamp on the barrel is another plus.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  18. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I'm getting some good information on this. Going to look (hopefully) some time this evening at all the marks on it and every stamp and what not on this gun. And then compare with all the info that's been posted. Not by ANY means doubting anyone's posts to this gun, just going to have to put it all together and get a good mental note. And Jim Hauff, sounds like you all have sold ALOT of the Mosin Nagants. I do appreciate the info you have gave me and will take that good advice quite to the letter. But what I am going to do is have a better detailed look at all the markings on the gun and try and take this gun somewhat apart...well all apart. I''d like to consider my self a (novice) gunsmith and when givein the time I can throughly get the job needed done. I may be posting more pics of this gun or more markings on the gun and see what is hiding under the wood.
  19. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you TRAP55 for the website. I think that nailed it down
    (literally) down to the "T"! That there gave a world of information Ive been looking for. Now what I have to do is take your advice and pull the gun out of it's stock. I'm dreading that, but going to get the table out and all my tools and as you said..well basically (carefully) dissect the gun. And see just what is stamped on the gun. I want to thank you and Jim Hauff and all the others that have gave info input on this gun. Going to to copy and print what has been put in this so I'll have all the info readily when I have this gun taken apart. I'm very anxious to see just what all is stamped on this gun but as in the past was very reluctant to try and disassemble. However that just and has been, needed to be done. When I get it all to the metal I may be posting pics of more markings with more questions. But I hope that wont be the case. I hope it will with what I have learned here will be a tail-all any markings on this gun.
    Zane
  20. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Be VERY careful removing the barrel/ hand guard bands - they are easily broken on older pieces and it is very difficult to find replacements.
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