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Need help identifying French military flintlock musket

5K views 5 replies 2 participants last post by  albatrosdva 
#1 ·
I recently acquired at auction a French flintlock carbine. I thought at first it was some sort of AN IX but the first two barrel bands have retaining springs on the left instead of the right so it is not a short AN IX. It has the slanted brass pan of the model 1777 and AN IX so I feel certain it predates the model 1816. It has the frizzen like an IX. Barrel length is 80 cm. I would say it could be some musket made in the style of the French muskets from a different country, but it is clearly marked St Etienne on the lock and the barrel has the St. Etienne markings. The other metal parts have what appears to be either a "C" or a "G" under a star. The lock also has an S inside a circle and a name on the inside "M C(or G)ourbon" as well as another S. Barrel is stamped with RF on the side of the touch hole, the cursive St Etienne mark, "C13", a flaming bomb with C inside the bomb and 26 below it, and "MLE 17__"(probably model 1777 but the last two digits are gone) on the tang. It has the wood plug in the side of the stock with RF.Any information you can find out for me about this musket or any of the markings would be most appreciated. I have never seen another musket with the flaming bomb or the RF on the side and the c13 is a complete mystery to me. The musket is in beautiful shape with very few dents in the wood. i wonder if this piece was even used.http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll295/albatrosdva/unknown%20french%20musket%20carbine/
 
#2 ·
The lockplate has to date 1804-1814/1815 because is it designates St. Etienne as a "Manufacture Imperiale" (not "Royale"), which means it was made during the reign of Napoleon I, who made himself Emperor in Dec 1804. (It is too early for the Second Empire.) I would assume the mark "RF" stands for Republique Francaise, and would probably indicate that it was taken over by the new government after "Boney" departed on an extended vacation.

The only mark I can think of that has a star over a letter is Belgian, so it is possible that the gun was reworked or altered in Belgium after it was sold off in later years by France. Close up photos of those marks and any marks under the barrel would help.

One puzzing aspect is that all the barrel band springs are behind the bands. On the Mle 1777 Modified IX, the two (new) front springs are in the rear but the rear band spring is in the front. Plus the stock does not look like a Mle 1777; it looks more like an 1822 stock, but the band springs would be wrong for that model also. The gun may have been reworked and restocked in Belgium if I am correct on the above theory.

Jim
 
#3 ·
well I doubt very much if it is a Belgian restock as it has the RF stamp in the wood. Also, since the barrel tang has the Mle 17__ mark on it I can only assume it is the model 1777 barrel which was pretty commonly used for subsequent models. I have a good model 1777 and can tell no difference in the stock, could you elaborate as to why it is wrong for the 1777? I will get pictures of the star over G marks and post them.
Sam
 
#5 ·
Well I am certainly no expert, and you may very well be right about it having Belgian parts. I posted because I was not familiar with a French musket of that time period with the barrel band springs the way they are. Is there a possibility that this could have been made in one of the occupied countries during the time of Napoleon and they utilized an older stock and barrel? If it was a surplus stock it would not necessarily have had the springs cut into it yet. Just a thought. If I were anywhere close to an expert I wouldn't be asking the questions. I like to learn
thanks
Sam
 
#6 · (Edited)
Just kind of an interesting thing I noticed and was curious what you all thought about this. The plug in the side of the stock is to show French construction and ownership. It was started in 1800 during the French first Republic, hence the RF marking. The lock, as noted before is marked Imple for the French First Empire with Napoleon the first from 1804-1815. The next republic was not until the 1848 Revolution. The end of Napoleon marked the restoration of the monarchy so they would not have had RF for the French Republic stamped on anything. The curious thing I found is on French coins of the time, until 1809 the back of them said Republique Francaise even though the front says Napoleon Empereur. I wonder why this is, and also, could this help date the musket to the time frame from the period of 1804-1808 when Napoleon was Emperor and also they were still marking things for the French Republic? Any opinions on the matter?
 
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