need help on 41 byf to buy not to buy

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by CHUCKEYCITY13, Apr 13, 2011.

  1. CHUCKEYCITY13

    CHUCKEYCITY13 New Member

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    I was offered this 41 byf luger I was able to take one pic I know its not enough but its all I have. The price is 1000.00 for the pistol its looks too good to me very clean can anyone tell from the single image if its a reblue all the numbers match and the bore is super clean looks to have been shot very little . Thanks for any help I have 24hrs to answer the guy on whether to buy it or not.

    Attached Files:

  2. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    Impossible to tell from that one image.
    The wear on the sideplate is consistent with an original finish, however the blue looks too shiney and edges look to soft - but it could all be a function of lighting, resolution, etc.
    We need more pics....
  3. CHUCKEYCITY13

    CHUCKEYCITY13 New Member

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    I understand but as I stated earlier I was only able to get one photo thanks for you help.
  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    My opinion - reblue. Color looks wrong (that shadow in the middle of it don't help none". Half of the 5 in that 1518 number has been polished away.
  5. Danny

    Danny Member

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    I have one just as yours & to be honest it looks to good to be true. It looks a little to shinny to be next to the last byf 42 that ended Luger production. I may be wrong but even if it has been re-blued , the fxo mag is a 250 dollar item. For 1 grand I would jump on it less than a heart beat. Re-blue or not, they shoot great. Personally, I would nab it for sure.
    Kind Regards
    Danny
    Another point which leads me to believe it has been tamponed with is the safety lever not showing any wear & the word, Gesichert seems like it would not take the white filler,or it was partially buffed out. Really close up pics are needed to give an accurate value.
  6. CHUCKEYCITY13

    CHUCKEYCITY13 New Member

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    Thanks so much I will meet the owner in the AM and try and make the deal. Thanks again to everyone for all there help and once again sorry for the one picture
  7. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR New Member

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    look inside the gun. Open the bolt and peer down the inside of the slide and frame. If its blue-its a reblue. IIRC, lugers were not dipped or submersed when blued. Only the outside exposed areas were blued. Also looks the wrong blue to me too. Lugers were originally a brownish blue, not a black blue.
  8. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    Helix_FR:
    Your statement only holds true for Pre-1937 made lugers, which were "rust blued". Around Mid 1937 Mauser switched to "black oxide blue",also known as "salt blue" which was a "dip" and all the surfaces(internal and external) were blued. The resulting appearance was indeed a black blue finish, with occasional "plum" colors possible on the 1940-1942 made pistols, when the salts used in the process were not mixed correctly or were "weak"...
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  9. Danny

    Danny Member

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    The SS added black grips on these & nicked name them Black Widows. I suppose they wanted these to match their black uniforms and put fear on the people.:mad:
    Danny
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, Danny,

    I wonder if you have seen any documentation for the story about the black plastic grips being installed by the SS or any use of the term "Black Widow" by the Germans.

    Several sources and my own limited experience indicate the black Bakelite grips were used sporadically on factory production from 1940 on and the latest (e.g., the Portuguese contract) production was all plastic. The black plastic grips were also used in depot rebuild and issued to unit armorers for replacements. (The SS story sounds better, of course.)

    I believe the "Black Widow" story was made up by a U.S. dealer.

    FWIW, that gun has been reblued and was poorly polished (badly overpolished) in the process.

    Jim
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  11. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Jim I will get U documentation, why do you think the fxo was made black?
    Danny
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  12. wonderwhippet

    wonderwhippet Active Member

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    I think Danny is pulling our legs, as he is very well informed on this subject. The recently deceased world class collector/dealer Ralph Shattuck is given the credit for coining the name "Black Widow" for Lugers made with black composition grips. He may have done this to increase interest and sales in these weapons.
  13. Brisk44

    Brisk44 New Member

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    Whatever it is it sure is purdy.
  14. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I get it. The Borchardt grips were made brown because they were to be used by the brownshirts. OK.

    ;)

    Jim
  15. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Well Jim U R partially correct. The brown shirts had brown holsters, however after the Night of The Long Knives & a little later the holsters were in fact dyed black. That is the same time the daggers with the Rohm name was ground off and they still used them, brown handles and all. It was Himmler that designed the black handle SS dagger. Black everything was used by the SS & they carried the black plastic gripped Luger,the weapon of choice, not the P-38 as one would think. Even the SS honor ring was painted black, eek nay per say(LOL)
    Danny:)
  16. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    I, think, also, that Danny is having fun with us here.
    First of all:
    SS did not procur any lugers or P-38s or any other 9mm first line weapons.
    Those were army, luftwafe(small proportion) and police procurred weapons and were distributed through the army/luftwaffe/police channels.
    The Waffen SS divisions would have received the standard 9mm handguns through the army channels and "Black widow" lugers were in the mix of the weapons available.
    The regular(non-waffen) SS procurred only Walther PP and PPKs(as part of general RSHA proccurment) and these indeed exist in certain serial ranges and have specific identifying characteristics.
    These were indeed ordered with black holster holsters, however many are now seen with both black and brown holsters.
    Bottom line:
    "Black widow" lugers have NOTHING to do with specific SS units(see Jim's post above) and just happened to have black grips and mag bottoms because wood and aluminum became difficult to come by and were used elsewhere in the german war industry.
    But, I think, Danny knew all that and just wanted to make me and Jim practice our typing skills :)
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  17. CHUCKEYCITY13

    CHUCKEYCITY13 New Member

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    I would like thank everyone once again for there help. I bought the item and took it to a friends gun shop and its 100% no doubt re-blue however I talked the owner down to 650.00 and am happy to be the new owner. I know the re-blue kills it but I love the way it looks. I am sure in the future I will tire of it and sale it but for now its my new toy. I will try and add more pics later.
  18. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    $650 is not too bad a price for a functional Luger, even with the reblue. On another site, every time I mentioned Luger prices, a fellow would tell me about how he could buy them all day for $200 and no one but a fool would pay any more. I think he was in a 1970 time warp. Some folks on here go the opposite direction and value Lugers at even higher than they usually sell for.

    When I was much younger, Lugers were selling for $10 and P.38s for $5. Of course, I was too young then to buy any gun and didn't have the $10, either. So I paid a whopping $35 for my first Luger, in 1955. Since I was in the army and getting $28 a month, that was sill a lot of money. I paid in two installments.

    Jim
  19. Danny

    Danny Member

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    :eek:
    Jim I never thought you were that old. Did you fight with Lee at Bulls Run? Just kidding Sir & Brother Vet.
    Danny:)
  20. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Nope, I was on the other side, running for Washington.

    As to "vet" I was sort of between wars, 1955-1957. I don't call myself a veteran, as I feel that term should be reserved for those who served in wartime, if not in combat. The only combat I saw was in the desperate struggle against Louisiana mosquitos. We lost.

    Jim
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