Need help to identify #3

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by danno, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. danno

    danno New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Midwest
    Another beauty... this one has some discernible markings that I hope can lead to some easier identification. Looking for solid info for documentation purposes.

    • 15" in total length
    • 9" barrel length
    • an anchor between the letters D C - possible Navy?
    • barrel has marking ELG inside a circle with the E above the LG. It looks like a star below the letters
    • a flint rock/stone between the hammer vise
    • heavy pistol

    Many photos to follow

    Attached Files:

  2. danno

    danno New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Midwest
    more photos

    Attached Files:

  3. danno

    danno New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Midwest
    ...more

    Attached Files:

  4. danno

    danno New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Midwest
    last set of photos

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  5. BillM

    BillM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    531
    Location:
    Amity Orygun
  6. danno

    danno New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Midwest
    Bill -

    SUPER!!! That is the exact info I am looking for. It does look to be it's twin and as for cal; I am going to have to go with what it says in the link - 65 cal.
  7. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    missouri ozarks
    I see that the two illustrated for the Maritime Museum differ in barrel length. This one, illustrated here by Danno, has had the barrel shortened - visible clearly in the picture showing the muzzle head on - and that corresponds to the one pictured at

    http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/exp...cfm?ID=AAA2414

    However the pistol listed as AAA2415 has a longer barrel extending beyond the nose cap.

    I was surprised to see the cut-off barrel and the bright metal from the slicing but even more surprised to see that one at the museum matched it in that respect. I suppose I have been deprived in my education - I don't believe I had ever seen one of these circumsized.

    BullShoot
  8. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    missouri ozarks
    May I respectfully suggest you store and display these flintlocks with the frizzen forward. The frizzen is the L-shaped cover for the pan that holds the priming powder. The upright portion is struck by the hammer to produce a spark and simultaneously uncover the powder for ignition.

    Having the hammer, the part that holds the flint, leaning against the frizzen just doesn't... seem... well.... ahhhh....right. Neither the hammer nor the frizzen will be at rest. By the way, a guaranteed way of irrevocably messing up your nice pistols would be to allow someone to ''dry fire'' them. The frizzen will end up being scored and the recent scoring will be bright shiny metal - quite unlike the patina on your pistols.

    Sorry, don't mean to be meddlesome.

    BullShoot
  9. danno

    danno New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Midwest
    Thanks - I have corrected this.
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,397
    I agree with BullShoot on moving the hammer forward and lowering the cock. (Just to nitpick on flintlock terminology!) ;)
  11. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    missouri ozarks
    Interesting, Jim. Hmmmm.


    BullShoot
  12. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    missouri ozarks
    Awwww, I guess it is better for me to be honest than polite.

    JimK, you are mistaken.

    The device that holds the flint is properly called the ''hammer'' though some people use the slang term ''cock'' for it. Both terms mean the same.

    The L-shaped device is a combination tool - part of it is a pan cover used to keep the ignition powder covered until ready to fire and the second part is the upright portion that is called the ''frizzen'' or, alternatively, the ''steel'' where the spark is generated

    May I respectfully suggest that ANYONE wishing to challenge my statement above first do a simple Google search on 'frizzen.' The answer should be evident then.


    A word of warning - you may or may not encounter one error I ran into once on the 'net where the individual had it backwards with the steel hitting the flint. But, in fact, the part first set into motion - the hammer/cock - strikes the frizzen/steel that is then itself put into motion. At least that applies for flintlocks, miquelets and snaphaunces - wheellocks are different.

    BullShoot
  13. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,397
    Well, the cock was not originally called the hammer because it didn't hammer anything. The term hammer was not generally used as it is today until the percussion period. And "hammer" really was used for what is now called the frizzen (I don't know why; it didn't hammer anything either); it was also called the "frizzle" and the "steel".

    Another term used for a flintlock was "fucile", from the Latin "focus" meaning hearth or fire. That became the French word "fusil" and the English "fuzee", both meaning a flintlock or a gun using a flintlock. Later it came to mean a light musket, especially one carried by officers or NCOs.

    In modern terminology, the term "snaphaunce" is used for guns in which the pan cover and the frizzen are separate* and the pan cover usually has to be moved away manually before firing. I have seen some snaphaunces which had an arm that moved the pan cover back when the "hammer" was cocked, a very clever solution to the existing problem, though the combination of the frizzen and pan cover, the true flintlock, was the real answer within the technology of the time.

    *Not always so; some of the old books use the term snaphaunce for any flintlock with a "snapping" cock as opposed to a wheellock.

    Jim
  14. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    missouri ozarks
    Good grief, JimK, do you want to argue about everything I say?

    I wrote what I did because you said, ''I agree with BullShoot on moving the hammer forward and lowering the cock. (Just to nitpick on flintlock terminology!)'' It seems as though you confused the terms.

    ''Hammer'' = ''frizzen'' ?
    and flintlock is called a snaphaunce in old books?
    Can you provide documentary evidence of either statement?

    The terms ''fusil'' and 'fuzee' are older than a flintlock.

    Not only in modern terminology but in contemporary terminology, the snaphaunce was called a snaphaunce - and by other names also.

    Please don't continue to compound your errors. I get tired of typing. If you would like to continue this ''conversation'', may I suggest we do it by email and not bother the good folks on the forum.

    With apologies to all,

    BullShoot
  15. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,397
    Hi, BullShoot,

    I humbly apologize for daring to contradict someone who is such a fount of all knowledge as you. I realize that it must be a burden for you to condescend to even communicate with us mere mortals, but I am certainly pleased you are willing to stoop so low as to show us the error of our ways.

    Bowing to your superiority and magnificant wisdom,

    Jim
  16. danno

    danno New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Midwest
    Soooo.... about the value of this pretty good looking pistol that now has the frizzen in the proper storage position?
  17. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    missouri ozarks
    Jim K,
    Again I say, If you would like to continue this ''conversation'', may I suggest we do it by email and not bother the good folks on the forum.

    BullShoot
  18. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    I can't speak for danno, but thank you.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Curio & Relics Forum Need help in ID'ing this piece. Nov 13, 2013
Curio & Relics Forum Need help with ID Nov 11, 2013
Curio & Relics Forum Need help identifying markings on a Ketland flintlock pistol Feb 19, 2013
Curio & Relics Forum need help with proof marks Jan 18, 2013
Curio & Relics Forum Need Help Finding a Part...Suggestions? Jan 15, 2013

Share This Page