Need help to identify old german 12 gauge shotgun

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by saulormcosta, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. saulormcosta

    saulormcosta New Member

    Oct 24, 2010
    I’m from Brazil and i need help to identify an old 12 gauge shotgun that belong to my great-grandfather.

    I need at least know the gunmaker to register the gun.

    I'll try to post some pictures. If somebody needs more pictures, please contact on e-mail:

    Any help will be very appreciated. Thanks and sorry about the english!!

    Saulo Costa

    Attached Files:

    • 1.jpg
      File size:
      144.4 KB
    • 2.jpg
      File size:
      130.8 KB
    • 12.jpg
      File size:
      150 KB
    • 22.jpg
      File size:
      106.4 KB
  2. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    As far as I can tell, the name Illix Aind, Berlin, is on the gun and that should be good enough for identification and registration. The first name is unusual but not unknown in Germany and France.

    I can't make out the other markings, maybe a better picture would help or maybe you can tell what some of it is and we can help.

    FWIW, the crowned letters are S for proof of a smoothbore barrel, W for proof of a choked barrel, and U for the final definitive proof, per the German proof law of 1891.

    The style of the gun indicates manufacture in the late 1890's or early 1900's.



  3. saulormcosta

    saulormcosta New Member

    Oct 24, 2010

    Searching in the internet, I find nothing referring to "Illix Aind".

    In's forum, they say it could be "Felix Arnd Berlin," but again I do not find references.

    The other inscription is "FURSTENWALDE Am / Spree."
    Furstenwalde is still a town in eastern Germany located on the Spree river

    About proofmarks, I found the meaning on (

    Thanks a lot for the help....

  4. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    In Germany at that time, many guns were made by a consortium or guild of makers and since it was a cooperative, there was no single maker who could put his name on the gun. The name on those guns was usually not the maker, but the retailer, who bought the gun plain and had his name stamped or engraved on it.

    If the law specifically states that the "maker" must be named, then you can't name a maker. But if the purpose is to identify the gun, the name on the gun should be adequate to do that, even if he is not technically the maker. My feeling would be just to list Illix Aind as the maker and not go into such details with the authorities.

Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Curio & Relics Forum Need a Little VZ24 Help Jun 1, 2015
Curio & Relics Forum Need help in ID'ing this piece. Nov 13, 2013
Curio & Relics Forum Need help with ID Nov 11, 2013
Curio & Relics Forum Need help identifying markings on a Ketland flintlock pistol Feb 19, 2013
Curio & Relics Forum need help with proof marks Jan 18, 2013