Need info on a Hembrug 1918

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by sgm2386, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. sgm2386

    sgm2386 New Member

    Nov 6, 2012
    I was just recently given my grandfathers Hembrug 1918 that I'm pretty sure he used in WWII. It is all original with matching serial# on the stock, barrel, bolt, etc. The wood is dinged up but the bolt and barrel look to be in good condition. I know next to nothing about this gun and would appreciate any info anyone has, i.e. general value range, what ammo it uses and best place to buy ammo. Thanks for any info in advance.
  2. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    G'day sgm2386, Welcome!!

    pic's are always helpful but from what you have said i think its a Dutch Mannlicher Model 1895 by Hembrug

    cal. 6.5mm

    and selling between $295 and $400 for complete rifles matching numbers in various conditions

    the real Mannlicher experts will be along soon to assist i'm sure

    cheers and again Welcome to TFF

  3. sgm2386

    sgm2386 New Member

    Nov 6, 2012
    Thanks for the welcome and the info jack. I hopefully attached a picture of the gun.
    I also was given a Gardone VT 940 XVII with bayonet and seems to be in similar condition. Attached are two pictures.

    I'm definitely not selling the guns and I would like to be able to shoot them 10-12 times a year. Any suggestions on what the best 6.5mm ammo for these guns?

    Attached Files:

  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    i'll leave advising ammo on that one to others who have actually fired one , i had one but traded it without shooting it at all ( rare for me but it happens) so i wont say if thats ok

    the Gardone XIX is most common XVII rather rarer 7.35x52 late model maybe $550 on that with another $80 for bayonet if in good condition

    Gardone are becoming popular with collectors and gone up a bit the past couple years
  5. B27

    B27 New Member

    Sep 23, 2012
    Atlanta, GA
    Those are straight pull bolts?
  6. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    No, both the Dutch Mannlicher and the Italian Mannlicher-Carcano are turnbolt actions. Both used the Mannlicher type magazine with en-bloc clips. Hembrug and Gardone are the cities where the respective arsenals were located and where the guns were made.

    I assume your grandfather was in the Dutch military or the resistance if he used that Hembrug rifle. Talk about fighting against long odds!

    The caliber is (if not altered) 6.5x53R.

    As to ammo, the Germans made a batch because they used the Dutch light machnegun, but it is scarce. I think someone is making cases but you can probably Google "6.5 Dutch ammo" and see what comes up.

  7. sgm2386

    sgm2386 New Member

    Nov 6, 2012
    Appreciate the info Jim.

    My grandfather was in the US Infantry, landed in Italy and marched north and fought in the Battle of the Bulge. I'm not sure if he used the Hembrug or Gardone, or just brought them back after the war.

    The ammo seems relatively easy to find. Hopefully I'll get them out to the range sooner rather than later.
  8. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    I think it is pretty certain that he used neither in combat, though the Italians used the Carcano and the Germans used some Dutch rifles, so it is possible that he brought both back. U.S. forces were generally prohibited from using enemy weapons for several reasons, but at that time there was no ban on keeping captured enemy arms. (And I can't imagine a GI discarding his M1 rifle and using a Carcano!!)

  9. useless

    useless New Member

    Feb 16, 2013
    thread revival / hembrug 1918

    Hi everybody. New member and first post here. I'm hoping someone here can help.

    I'll try to post pictures later today.

    I've got a Hembrug 1918 carbine. My grandfather brought it home after WW2. He was in the Pacific Theater. He's gone now so can't ask him the good questions anymore.

    1940 stamped across top of barrel, just below that ser # 2806C which matches stock. Bolt has different number. Sling mounts are both on the side. It has a bayonet lug and wood magazine cover but no wooden top cover. Also has brass tag inlaid ( 10-4 R.I. 140 stamped) partially covering "W" emblem on stock. Dad said grandpa said "... pulled it off a Jap on a tank"

    I have read that some Dutch guns were used in Indonesia and wasn't sure about the Japanese comment.

    Anyhow trying to find some history and put together a story on this gun..
  10. Fatstrat

    Fatstrat Well-Known Member

    Apr 17, 2003
    The Dutch were present in the east Indies before WW-2. So that would be my theory on how the rifle got there. I doubt it was used by the Japanese.
    As far as weapons being collected on the battlefield. Only in very rare occasions would a soldier use an enemy weapon in combat. It's a great way to get killed by friendly fire as different calibers & guns have different report signatures.
    During actual combat operations, soldiers tend to collect only smaller souvenir items. Medals, knives etc. Generally nothing larger than a pistol. The simple reason is that larger items such as rifles are just too cumbersome to try to carry (along with your own rifle/gear) during combat.
    Rifles/swords etc are generally collected after battles are over. Occasionally sent home in the mail. But most were collected after war was over and soldier going home. And brought home personally.
    Which was in itself often a tricky situation regarding weapons. Despite official military rules which made bringing home certain weapons legal. The soldier was also subject to the jurisdiction of the Captain of the ship that brought him home. Many of whom forbid bringing weapons aboard his ship. Occasionally they would allow soldiers to board. And then announce the ban and conducting searches after disembarking. There was also the threat of having souvenirs stolen by fellow soldiers or ships crew. So generally souvenirs were limited to what could be easily concealed with a soldiers duffle bag. Which lead to the common practice of "Duffle cutting" long gun (Rifle) stocks. The rifle action would be separated from the stock. And the stock cut at middle (usually at barrel band) to shorten it so it would fit inside a duffle bag.
  11. useless

    useless New Member

    Feb 16, 2013
    Ahh. Ok I was wondering about the "duffle cutting" I read about. I don't think this one was. If I remember correctly my grandfather had some ammo for it but my uncles blew thru that when they were kids. So gun was serviceable in the 60's.

    My grandfather brought it home personally along with a sword.(uncle has the sword)

    I'm looking around today to see if he brought home any clips too. Ultimately I'd like to get it professionally restored and the barrel inspected/xrayed and blast a couple rounds out of it.

    I'll get some photos up later. Unfortunately a family member tried to "restore" it and probably did more arm than good.

    My grandfather was USMC and ran a tank over there. I wish I had asked so many more questions now...
  12. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2004
    Goodyear, Arizona
    Most stories of how a weapon came into a soldier's possession are highly exaggerated. They don't want to admit that they won it in a poker game or traded a bottle of whiskey for it. Japanese tanks were so small and cramped for space, there was no room for rifles of any type. Sorry about that.
  13. useless

    useless New Member

    Feb 16, 2013
    No worries. It's been 25 years since dad talked to him about it. And a lotta years prior to that since he probably even thought about it.
  14. 3/2 STA SS

    3/2 STA SS Active Member

    I used my Colt Lawman MKIII in the first Persian Gulf War...fired it over my head just to say it did it towards an Iraqi trench line...anything goes in combat.
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