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Need some clarification on pressures

866 views 10 replies 6 participants last post by  gdmoody 
#1 ·
I've got some Ranier bullets that I cannot find load data anywhere so I will use similar weight Hornady bullets where I have load tables to reference. I plan on starting with minimum loads and will likely stay there as long as they poke holes in paper at 50 and 100 yards but........

I am curious about something I have heard mentioned by several members, and that is to start out with minimum loads and work up watching for signs of over pressure. What exactly am I looking for?
 
#3 ·
Each of the manuals has a blurb and some manuals have portions sparsed about. But Lyman 49th starting p46 has a nice consolidated section that speaks to primer pockets and soot and smudges, loose primers after firing, case distortions, case separation, etc. They also mention too low a pressure. Hornady 9th, has lots of pictures, p23 speaks to the bolt and it's occurrences. p22 speaks to the bolt causing crimping and thusly increasing pressure. Lee 2nd edition p88 has a section on "Signs of Excessive Pressure." Things like sound is louder, recoil is higher, difficult extraction, more on primers, head enlargement. Use a good light and magnifying lens to look for bolt face embossing into the head. Each manual offers some info that the other doesn't offer. If you stick to start to mid load ranges and seat the primers correctly, and follow the load data, you are off to a good start. When you look at a case, I always use the "if in doubt, throw it out." Some of the other more experienced folks will chime in and give you better examples. But that is a great question. Glad you asked it. Means you are safety minded. You can use the search option and garner more data as well.
 
#4 ·
Ranier bullets are copper plated, like berrys bullets. They have a thin electroplating of copper. Pushing these bullets too fast will cause the plating to come off and lead your barrel. Not exceeding 1,200fps is the norm with these style bullets.

The best way to tell if a round is over pressure is by measuring the pressure ring on the case. Measure this area on either a factory unfired round and then after firing or on a handload at minimum charge. The pressure ring swell from the factory fired round or the handloaded round is your base line. Any pressure ring swell .001" over that is over pressure and the load should be reduced by 1-2gr.
Keep in mind that primers lie. They are not all created equal. Some are softer than others, so a flattened primer isn't a very good indicator. A flattened primer could also be caused by a head space issue. Pressure ring measurements are the most reliable.
 
#5 ·
Treat the Rainier bullet as you would cast lead bullets. That is keep the velocity low or the barrel will lead up. While there are supposedly "signs" of excessive pressure they are meaningless unless you follow the exact procedures for them. Pressure ring test require new brass. Flattened primers are not universally excessive pressure. Extractor cutout imprint on the case means too much pressure. Sticky bolt operation is too much pressure. Loose primer pockets are ruined brass by too much pressure. Blown primers are WAY too much pressure. I have not found a reliable way to use pressure indicators except in the extreme.

The safe way, especially with Rainier or cast bullets is to stay away from anything close to a max manual load. Mid-loads are fine and starting loads better if they will operate you gun reliably. The general rule is less than 1200 FPS but I typically make that less than 1000 FPS depending on the caliber. Rainier plated bullets are good and I have used them for over 20 years. But some guns that ham fist the cartridges during loading don't like them. For those guns I use the only slightly more expensive "Bulk" bullets from Remington and Winchester. My supplier buys them by the cardboard box, separates them into baggies of 100 and 250 and re-sells them. Many gun stores do the same.

LDBennett
 
#6 ·
Picking up range brass might offer some opportunities if the brass wasn't picked up by whomever shot it. Building test loads might offer better results for that special round you are looking for with once fired brass or less )I don't know how many times it takes for reusing brass to effect the results in the way of thin walls. ie: If the brass has been trimmed several times and then the ladder testing reveals what appears to be pressure signs as you incre4ase in powder and seating depth, was it really pressure for "that" load or was it from a thinned down brass from too many reloads that revealed the stress from thin walls.
 
#7 ·
First of all why is the brass left behind? Was it because the shooter was not a reloader? Was it because it is some off-brand low quality brass that is really only good for one shooting? Was it because it was at the end of its service life? Or was it because the shooter was too lazy to pick it up?

Unless I witness or can verify that the brass left behind at the range is truly once fired and good quality brass, I do not use range pickup brass. I buy brass for a new caliber for me in 200 or 300 bulk lots and reload it until I have assessed that it is at its service life limit. That could be loose primer pockets, head separation in the lot of brass, case throat burn through, or because it is too beat up from semi-auto guns hammering it on extraction/ejection. I do use once fired Mil Surp Lake City brass for my 308 semi-autos after it is prepared and inspected.

The number of reloads you can get out of brass has many variables. The very high pressure (like Magnum rifle) calibers tend to burn through the throat of the case. If for bolt guns I do less than full length sizing (only pushing the shoulder back a few thousands from its last firing) I can get more reloads from it. Some anneal the cases which I do not because it is too hard to do it correctly and not soften the cases erroneously (I choose to not risk that while others take the chance). Most cases can be reloaded 5 to 10 times with trimming probably every other time (or even less) as the brass needs it. When the cases of a lot of brass start to fail the whole of the lot is trashed (to the recycler).

LDBennett
 
#9 ·
One range I go to is indoors and has lots of new ammo shooters. I've found when the range is busy, I wait for the second slot from the far right. You get the extracted ammo from those down a few runs and those to your left and the one closest to the wall get wall bounce of the brass that ends up in mostly the 2nd isle. I get some 223, but mostly pistol.
The outside country area I go to is where I am a bit more selective. I ask those shooting if I can have their brass and if they reload. I had one person say, here you go as he handed me a bag of about 100 cases. He said he was just going to trash them and he doesn't reload. We try to keep the area clean so the county deputies don't get reports of trashing the place.
One outside pay range has a screen that keeps your brass localized for the most part so you can keep all your own rifle brass. I don't shoot pistol there and have no idea of what theirs is like.
 
#10 ·
One range I go to is indoors and has lots of new ammo shooters. I've found when the range is busy, I wait for the second slot from the far right. You get the extracted ammo from those down a few runs and those to your left and the one closest to the wall get wall bounce of the brass that ends up in mostly the 2nd isle. ....
I shoot my 223 a lot in our indoor range and I wish I could keep the brass on my side of the RED LINE so I can pick it up! My AR-15 ejects 95% of it out in front of me and I know that is by design, maybe not getting hit in the face with hot brass (I'm a leftie) is better than salvaging the cases.:)
 
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