New .45 Glock bullet.

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by frosty, Nov 16, 2003.

  1. frosty

    frosty New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    374
    Location:
    Texas
    Well here it is the new .45 G.A.P.from Glock.

    Isn't it cute with a little water, sunshine and some tender love and care it will grow up to be a big .45acp.

    In my opinion it will cause nothing but confusion and a pain in the butt for those who think they have a traditional .45 but do not!
    Glock is so stubborn and ignorant that all he had to do was change the grip on his full size 21 to cure the problem of to fat a grip. Moron:rolleyes:

    Apparently the story goes that a guy came in with his pistol and the slide would not cycle when the gun was fired. The problem was that the gun store had sold him the wrong ammo, he got the .45Gap instead of the .45acp............duh.:rolleyes:

    Attached Files:

  2. Silencer

    Silencer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,759
    Location:
    Southern California: Inland Empire
    This is some sort of sick joke, right? Why the hell would Glock be stupid enough to do something like this? Bastardize the beloved .45ACP to make the pistol feel better in the hand? Sick, sick joke!

    Go easy on my naiveté, I'm new here.

    :p
  3. FN_Project90

    FN_Project90 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    it is sick because gun store clerks everywhere are selling it as 45 acp when they just grab whatever says 45
  4. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    Say, I hate admit this...but I've never heard of the Glock GAP round...or, are you boys pulling my chain; I'm pretty easy to fool.

    But if the 45 GAP really is a new round I wouldn't be too quick to throw cold water on it.

    Think revolver, not them crappy looken Glocks. This would make one fine short 5 shot snubby revolver load if the brass can handle the CUPs that would make it a real manstopper.

    I've always had this short round idea for .44 mag and .45 acp brass.

    Only did such an experiment once back in 1988 when I invented the .44 APC (auto pistol cartridge) and still have the proto type barrel and reloading dies for it.

    The .44 APC was a drop-in barrel in an ordinary Colt or clone .45 acp semi-automatic pistol.

    I'll have to get off my butt and take some pix sometime and show you what its all about if anyones interested.

    I spent a lot of money for nothing as it turned out developing this round, as no one in the gun industry needed another auto pistol cartridge even if it could delvelope up to 1500 fps plus with bullets ranging from 160 to 230 grains.

    But so much for that feeble attempt, I am very keen to see a short .45 GAP round used in a 5 shot revolver if the velocities are there.

    Gunguy
  5. VIPERGTSR01

    VIPERGTSR01 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    South Australia
    the 45 gap is real, and i would be interested in seeing these 44 APC pics
  6. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    OK, Viper. Will try and work on some pix tomorrow afternoon.

    Jim ;)
  7. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    Ok, here's the .44 apc (auto pistol cartridge) showing cartridges that are made from .308 rifle brass. They are cut back to .935 case length and reamed to .430 diameter, the finished bullet is seated in sizing die to .429 diameter.

    Making custom brass like this is not for the willy nilly, it takes a lot of patiance to obtain quality control on brass uniformity. Even as imperfect as a few pieces might have been I've never experienced any split cases or ruptures in over 2,000 test rounds fired through the proto type barrel.

    The one only prototype barrel was contrived by my directions to a gunsmith who took a .44 caliber barrel liner and inserted it into a standard military bored out .45 acp barrel. This is really remarkable as the barrel has withstood tremendous CUPs from a couple thousand test shots that for the most part were above 1,100 fps velocities...with a maximum being about 1,550 and couple that went over 1,600 fps.

    Enough jabber jawing, here's da pictures.

    Jim

    Attached Files:

  8. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    More pictures, I don't know how to do mutipul pix on the same posting.

    This wood box is chock full of .44 apc rounds of different bullet types and weights.

    Jim

    Attached Files:

  9. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    More pix...

    Note the cut-away .44 apc brass next to the barrel's chamber, it is the thicker brass web on a .308 rifle brass that gives the .44 apc its supurb strength to handle the high CUPs.

    Attached Files:

  10. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    Last one...

    Attached Files:

  11. Silencer

    Silencer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,759
    Location:
    Southern California: Inland Empire
    You stole my idea!

    Hey, you snooze, you loose. Right?

    I always wanted to build my own .44 cal auto pistol like what you did. I was thinking of calling it a .44 Super. I thought about having it shoot a 240gr bullet from 950 to 1200 FPS. That way it can be silenced for military work, and provide awesome energy for self defense and adequate energy for hunting.

    I've heard about using .308 cases for .44 auto, but what is needed from the average reloader for this to work? How well do rifle primers work with the loads you have? What powders did you use, and how much did you use? Does the pistol shoot well? Is it reliable? I always wanted to know the answers to these questions about using .308 brass for .44 auto.

    Cool pistol. :tup: Keep me informed if you do anything with it!
  12. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    Thanks for interest in my .44 APC concept.

    The caliber is proven foregone fact that it works and works well, it can do the velocities you've described and then some.

    Like I said its all in the web of the .308 brass cartridge head, the inheirent thickness and strength of that section of cartridge brass is what makes any magnum caliber viable.

    I could never develope the right technique to mass produce the cartridge brass from .308 rifle brass...at least anything that was very speedy.

    Tried to interest the gun industry in my idea and they for the most part ignored or said as much if I sent it into them they would say they had been working on a simular idea even though I had a US Patent on it and a working prototype.

    As you may have noticed there are many magnum calibers for pistol and revolvers on the market today and one more like mine wouldn't make a dent in the market as there are too many to choose from.

    Sad for me, I had such great hopes of seeing its coming to a working concept and then finding out the world didn't give a crap.

    If you don't have the money to gamble on pushing a new idea to marke t then it dies on the vine.

    As to what powders have I experimented with...mostly simi-fast types or medium burning rates to see what it would do.

    HS6 was the first one to make it go over 1,600 fps but since 1988 there are many new powders like hodgdon's Clays, Universal, and Tightgroup and others that would work well.

    Since the early 1990s haven't done a thing with the .44 apc, health slipping away from me and old age kicking me in the butt, it would take a miracle to see it come to anything now.

    Hope that answers some of your questions.

    Jim
  13. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    8,889
    Location:
    Texas
    I believe this was formerly called the ............


    44 AutoMag


    wasn't this made by the now defunct AMT Corp? I know the brass was made specifically from .308 brass. However, I believe they either increased the hammer drop to compensate for the rifle primer thickness or used a pistol primer. That one I am not sure of. However, this was done before in the 60's or 70's. However, it was NOT done on a 1911 frame and the AMT version was gas operated.

    Nice work Jim. Got another one hiding someplace? :D :D :D
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2003
  14. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    Hi Rick. The .44 apc had nothing to do with the .44 auto mag, like you said it was gas operated and mine was the blow-back Colt Browning design. The only thing they have in comon is the .308 rifle brass. But it is of interest that the .44 apc first came to life in 30-06 brass and then later the .308 brass which has a bigger ejector cut out on the brass rim.

    I still have a few rounds loaded in the cut-down 30-06 brass.

    The .44 apc used standard pistol primers in the cut-down .308 rifle brass...worked just fine with them. Never had to use magnum primers at all.

    The gun in my pictures is a Randall stainless steel clone of the Colt 1911 model and all its variants. It is none the worse for wear and tear having fired all those .44 apc test rounds.

    The slide guide stem had the double counter wound recoil springs and a rubber gromet button on the end of the stem to absorb the shock of recoil from the heavy magnum type loads stressed upon it.

    I once shot a couple of dozen of the .44 apc rounds in a 1931 Colt and it handled them just fine too. That old GI barrel would fit into about anything designed to look like a Colt .45 acp.

    Of course nothing else was required to make the .44 apc work in such a pistol, the magazines handled the .935 OAL of the cartridge brass but you had to keep the bullets seated to where they didn't interfere with the rifle lands on the forcing cone of the barrel.

    Next spring I think I will take this ole idea and go to the range with some new loads in Hodgdon powder and see how it handles them. Don't have a chronograph anymore, sold it to a guy on the S&W forum.

    Jim
  15. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    8,889
    Location:
    Texas
    So that's your Randall huh? Seems like I could do the same thing to my Randall. Now, cutting all the brass I need would be quite an endeavour, to say the least. But, thanks to a good friend, I do have a stash of .308 brass...hehe.

    Must be quite a handful in that pistol. Would love to experiment with that theme also. What bullet weight were you using?

    Thanks, Jim.

    Rick
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2003
  16. Gunguy

    Gunguy Guest

    The bullets weights were from 145 and 180 grain LBT type moulds that had a pretty flat meplat. Of course a lot of those bullets got changed by my swaging techniques with different shape nose punches.

    However, a lot of the bullets were jacketed as well as hardcast lead.

    The best all around bullet weight seemed to be around 175 to 180 grains in hard cast lead, some had gaschecks and some didn't. Both worked fine up to 1,500 fps + and no leading problem.

    Biggest practical bullet would be about 230 grains though I went as high as 250 but they brought on stuck cases so quit using them. Plus the velocities really fell off with the heavy weights because of powder volume got really reduced by the bullets size.

    As long as I ran with the 145 to 230 I could play with the big boys in magnumville. Though I never liked to call the .44 apc a magnum...to much of that jazz going around these days. After all, a good performing cartridge doesn't have to be a magnum to get the job done.

    I prefere to shoot and load the .44 special and .45 Colt for my jollies.

    Jim
  17. tuckerd1

    tuckerd1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2001
    Messages:
    3,243
    Location:
    Paint Rock Valley, Alabama
    Gunguy, great idea you had there. Too bad you couldn't make it work. People are still stuck on the 45ACP for the 1911 even though othere calibers are out there for it.

    IPT, 44 AutoMag was designed and built by Harry Sanford, Pasadena, Calif in the 70's. AMT, High Standard and others eventually owned manufacturing rights to the pistol after he went bankrupt. Original ammo was made by CDM of Mexico. Super Vel also manufactured some ammo. Hard to find and expensive ammo.

    I owned one of these pistols (44 AutoMag) and reloaded for it also. Used 308 brass, cut down and reamed to accept the .429 bullets. Was very time consuming.

    When I finally get my reloading bench rebuilt I'm going to start experimenting more with the 45 Super. Commercial brass is available and no modifications other than recoil springs are necessary to 1911. I have loaded some of these, but do not have enough info to actually make judgement on it.

    I have shot the 45 Super in my Kimber Custom Combat and my Springfield V16. I like the idea and the way the pistols handle, but need a lot of experimenting to develop accuracy.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Glock 22 bullet bests Oct 15, 2007
The Ammo & Reloading Forum GLOCK 17 barrel for reloads? Jul 25, 2013
The Ammo & Reloading Forum That darned Glock Bulge. Oct 21, 2012
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Glock 22 .40 Handloads Oct 5, 2012
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Reloading .40 S&W for a Glock 22 Feb 23, 2012

Share This Page