New Brass, .243 Cracked neck

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by clepidus, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. clepidus

    clepidus Member

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    Hello everybody. I just pulled some brass out of the tumbler a few hours ago and found that over 50% of the rounds my wife shot this weekend cracked at the neck. This was new WW brass, I ran through a new set of dies, trimmed to spec and primer pockets uniformed. I used Hornady One Shot spray lube this time around and have read this may be part of my problem but I still want to get some different opinions. I have enclosed a few pictures although only one of them turned out somewhat clear. I hope somebody can shed some light on the issue.

    Any opinions will be valued as this is my wife's rifle and she is new to Shooting and hunting and I don't want to start her out with a preventable incident caused by my ignorance.

    The load is Winchester Primer, 40gr IMR 4350, pushing a 87gr Vmax. It is a light load that is extremely accurate and great for getting her a feel for the rifle. I was going to start bumping it up as we get into deer season since she got a doe tag in her first ever drawing.....(another story there as I have put in for 10 years with not a single draw)

    Thanks,

    Mike

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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2012
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    and the last resized photo..

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  3. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    that crack had to have been like that when shot as the edges are burned , or thats how its looking
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Mike.. I fixed your gargantuan pics so theyre a littel easier to view.;)

    I bettn money you got ahold of some bad brass. and thats why it split.

    I also just cross referenced the data youre using too. I feel it may be a tad undercharged. Hornady doesnt list IMR 4350 for use under its 87 gr V max, and none of my other manuals list the 87 gr V max, but looking at data for a 90 gr bullet and IMR 4350 the starting charge for a slightly heavier bullet is in the 42 gr range. IMR 4350 is one of those you cannot undercharge with because you can easily get secondary explosion due to too much empty space in the case. Which could also be aiding your split necks, though i think youd have had problems with stocky bolt lift and extraction as well.

    I also notice you mention the 87 gr Vmax for deer hunting. I gotta advise against that one too. The Vmaxes are too lightly constructed and will explode upon impact and increase the chance of wounded game. Meaning your wifes doe will likely hobble off into the woods with a gaping flesh wound and a broken shoulder.

    I do have a very good shooting load I developed for my wife using 85 gr sierra gamekings and Alliant 4000MR and I dont mind sharing it at all.

    CCI250 primer
    44.4 gr 4000MR
    85 gr SGK

    Good for 3150 fps in a 26" barrel and is half MOA.

    SO I guess my advice is for you to get a different batch of brass. Choose a different bullet and make sure you arent undercharging with IMR4350.

    ;)
  5. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    yep.. that does look like a flaw/fissure and not a regular mouth crack.

    ditto what i'm seein on the laod in a few books too. a lil light.

    seeings as how it's doing it to more than 1 case..
    i'd check the entire lot with a lstrong light and even look inside the mouth at an angle.

    you sure this was new in new un opened packaging?

    I've bought win brass marked new at a show one time.. in a win bag. got home and bag had been slit and taped and the brass in it was at least 1x fired. it WAS deprimed and tumbled.. I DOD find tumble media in it!!! and the COL was out of spec on some... i know they don;t send you pre-grown win brass. :)

    good luck!
  6. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    ps.. i don't think it was the hornady 1 shot. i've been thru a few thousand rounds with it with no issues.
  7. Twicepop

    Twicepop Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't appear to be your gun or reloading procedures causing the problem. Winchester brass has had some poor quality issues from time to time. Several of the vendors at the gun show I attend no longer have or will sell Winchester brass anymore. They've changed either something in the brass formulation or their quality controll standards, heat treating would be my guess. Now I have to ask, are they buying it from a Chinese source?

    those who beat their guns into plowshares, will plow for those who didn't
  8. clepidus

    clepidus Member

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    Thanks guys, I am glad we share the opinion for the most part. Yes this was new sealed in the bag brass bought at a local retailer. I wish I would have kept the two bags I bought separate as it was hopefully just one bag with some scrap metal in it. I had read that Winchester was putting out some less than standard brass in the last few years, I guess I know now.

    The load data actually came out of a Nosler book. They only list a 85 gr ballistic tip and a 90 gr spitzer and start at 39.5 gr. I had the powder left over from a trial run with my 22-250 and wanted to get rid of it. I planned on going to a 100gr Nosler Partition for deer. I was given almost 200 of the Hornady's and they pretty well destroy the coyotes she has hit.

    Thanks for resizing the pictures JLA, I did not even think about it when I posted them. They look quite a bit better shrunk down too.

    I just ordered 500 new pieces of Remington brass. Hopefully I will have better luck with it. I will go pick up some of those 85 gr game kings and my 100 gr noslers to see which one shoots better.

    Thanks for the information everybody, I guess I am a part of the site now rather than a lurker seeking advice from the sidelines. Talk to ya all later, I have some brass to get cleaned up.

    Mike
  9. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    i wonder WHO is all making brass these days.

    I have some prvi/pmi/ppu brass i'msaving and it looks pretty good. you can tell they het treated the necks too.. I would ?guess? this is local production stuff in a former soviet blok country and not chinese produced.. but? is china making any case pressings?
  10. clepidus

    clepidus Member

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    Im having really good luck with the Hornady brass I use for my .270 win. Im on the 2nd to 5th loadings on 500 rounds and they all look really good. They are fire formed and neck sized only so trimming is kept to a minimum. I shoot a fairly hot 140gr berger through them and they are no worse for wear. Other than that most of my reloads come from various factory ammo that I have shot and this batch of Winchester is the only problem I have had.

    As with almost everything though as the economy continues to fall so does quality. This can be seen in many of the new "entry level" firearms being produced in the last few years. Hell even the Remington 870 Wingmaster I bought last year has the feel of budget cuts.
  11. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    The pictures don't look so much like burned through holes as they do a folding of the neck brass from too much case lube. I suppose if the cases had the folds before being shot that the area around the fold may be thin and/or stretched and easily burn through. ??????? Maybe not????

    A lot of people use spray on lube. I don't like it because it is too hard to control for volume on each individual case. I much prefer rolling the cases on the RCBS lubing pad using their water soluble lube. It is old fashion but it is better at getting the right amount of lube and not too much on each case. After the cases are loaded it is easy to remove the lube with a damp rag followed by a roll on a towel. This is just the way I do it. Others here have their ways too.

    LDBennett
  12. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    the spray on lubes actually coat pretty good.. but i've found that after you spray them.. let them set a bit.

    i'e tried the rcbs spray lube.. hornady, and a couple others. all seem to work fine.. IF you let them set a bit.

    one of his pics almost looks like a burn thru fissure..
  13. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Burn thru's usually, in my experience, don't look like this. They don't have the fold????? Whats with the fold of metal? Is it just the poor picture quality??

    LDBennett
  14. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    bottom pic of post 1 sure looks like a fisure to me.. but then it is still out of focus a bit too.
  15. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    It sure is hard to tell from the pictures. I only get burn thru's when the brass has been reloaded many times. In fact it is the indicator I see mostly of worn out brass that needs replacement.

    You know, it most certainly must be bad brass. Nothing else makes any sense. I'd call Winchester and see what they say. I'd not send them those pictures but an actual sample of the bad cases. If it was bad brass they may replace it. if it was a reloading error they may be able to point it out.

    LDBennett
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