New guy -- old unknown double gun

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by john_bud, May 14, 2011.

  1. john_bud

    john_bud Member

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    Thank you for the excellent translation. Your English is 1,000,000 times better than my French. :D

    Here are some views of the hidden areas : A bit redundant, but I wanted to get different angles and light in case there was some faint mark that I am missing.

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  2. Hawg

    Hawg Well-Known Member

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    Thats an assembly number to keep track of all the parts before assembly.
  3. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The story of assembly numbers is interesting. Since they wanted to produce a nice gun for the customer, the whole gun was assembled "in the white" (with no finish and no hardening), and hand fitted as necessary. Then the parts were given a final polish, blued or case hardened or whatever, and re-assembled. The numbers made sure the previously fitted parts were assembled correctly.

    Just some FWIW based on a e-mail question. The man wanted to know how they managed to get the screw slots all lined up on the old guns. The answer is simple, though not obvious. The screws were made wtih extra thick heads, with normal slots. After they were tightened down, the projecting sides were marked with the right direction, the screw removed, and the head cut down to the proper height. The new slot was then cut, using the marks for alignment, and the marks polished off. This was, of course, very tedious, time consuming and expensive, and by the early 20th century it was done only on the most expensive guns. Today such care is rare and few customers would notice it if it were done.

    Jim
  4. lefaucheux 54

    lefaucheux 54 Member

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    Only with a 3 .... we won't go very far.....
    No name in the "platine" I don't know the english word for it ... the metallic piece with the hammer and the mecanisme..
    The place on the upper side and between the barrels was principally used by the one how sold it ...
    This rifle is to nice looking to have been made in a big serie.... so there must be somewhere an indication

    LF
  5. john_bud

    john_bud Member

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    LF, I'll take a very close look at all the gun to see if there are any marks on it anywhere. My suspicion is that any marks might be under a metal piece and that it would take un-screwing screws to get to it. I am not feeling brave enough to do that!

    Jim, You know, I was actually wondering how they got the screws all lined up too! It might have been expensive, but is sure does make the gun look "finished".

    For a gun that is 150 years old or more, it is incredibly tight. There isn't slop or wobble in any of the parts. Everything moves smoothly with consistent friction. Obviously, the master craftsmen that built it knew their craft far better than I can express.
  6. chuck moek

    chuck moek New Member

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    Hi I just came across a similar gun. Its a 20 gauge muzzleloader I believe.It looks almost the same. What did you find on it and what is the value.
  7. rhmc24

    rhmc24 Member

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    Platine = Lockplate

    I'm not much of a pinfire-ophile but I like this one as an example of its type and workmanship.

    Comment --- when I was in France 1940s -'70s (off and on) pinfire ammo was available in gunshops & pinfire shotguns (obviously) in use by farmers and other rural folk.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  8. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Active Member

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    For the same reason many cartridge guns draw little collector interest--rounds are obsolete, next to impossible to find, and very expensive when you do find them.
  9. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

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    Originally Posted by Hawg
    Unfortunately there's not much collector interest in pinfires.

    Originally Posted by lefaucheux 54
    Why ??


    I'll add another view. Collectors of antique firearms are historians at heart. Here in the U.S. we have virtually no history of pinfires. There were some Lefaucheux imported in the time of our war between the States- but other than that, pinfires were just not a significant part of our history. Perhaps a combination of forces were at work to create this situation.
    1.) Pin fire ammunition was somewhat scarce and had to be imported.
    2,) Reloading was thought to be too difficult if not impossible.
    3.) The war had led to a great many experimental ignition systems which competed for attention,
    and, most likely,
    4.) The post-war ready availability of large caliber rimfire, and in time, centerfire cartridges and ammunition overwhelmed the pinfire concept in this country.

    The firearm pictured is very attractive and, in my personal opinion, collectible BUT. lacking the historical connection, it would sell here in the US to a quite limited buyer market and probably at a price far below it's realistic value in Europe.
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    FWIW, the German word for a double barrel gun is "Zwilling" (twin), but my German is not good enough to know if there is a special term for a shotgun/rifle combination double.

    Jim
  11. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    The 1911 Adolph Frank catalog called them 'Büchsflinten'
  12. Iron Eagle

    Iron Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Beautiful gun. Are those barrels Damascus?
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