New guy with new C&R and lots of questions

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by cointoss2, Mar 3, 2003.

  1. cointoss2

    cointoss2 Guest

    tccox
    Registered User
    Posts: 1
    (6/7/01 11:17:30 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Hi Guys, I recognize most of you from GB forum. I think I like this one better. Seems to be less BS and more factual info. Several of you have helped me on GB so I presume (?) I can get a little assistance now and then here.

    OK. I got my C&R license last week. I also got a ton of stuff from ATF. A lot of forms to fill out if selling guns. I really only got the license to buy guns. Which is the main reason for this letter. How/where can I buy guns with the C&R? Can I buy guns (C&R type) from sellers and have them sent directly to me? Can I buy these $50 rifles from the sellers in Shotgun News.

    I realy don't know enough about the C&R license to ask the right questions. But what do I know anyway. I just bought a Lee press and dies to load 25ACP for my pair of consecutive numbered stainless Ravens!!

    I appreciate any and all suggestions/comments. Most anyway, don't tell me what to do with the Ravens. Tom

    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 273
    (6/7/01 11:37:25 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Tom,

    The C&R license allows you to buy those firearms classified as Curios & Relics directly, interstate. So yes, you can buy most of those $50 items and have them sent directly to you, provided the items are classified C&R.

    I have always wondered why ATF sends CRFFL's all the yellow forms, multiple disposition records, etc. You can sell C&R stuff, provided you do not "engage in the business of dealing in firearms."

    Can be a gray area. Visit www.atf.treas.gov and check out the FAQ's.


    Purveyor of Fine Firearms to the Enlightened Few
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    shooter45 us
    *Senior Chief Moderator*
    Posts: 451
    (6/7/01 11:46:45 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    TC, welcome to the board.

    Kdubya
    Moderator
    Posts: 440
    (6/7/01 1:43:35 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Yeah - welcome to the board. Look forward to seeing your future posts.

    Don't know a damned thing about C&R's, so can't help you there!
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    Mesen
    Member
    Posts: 96
    (6/7/01 1:53:43 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    TC
    Welcome, I'm like Kdub don't know anything about C&R but was curious is it a long drawn out pain in the a$$ process?
    IF YOU VALUE YOUR FREEDOM, THANK A VET!

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 367
    (6/7/01 3:16:01 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Welcome Tom......hang around a while, a bunch of our guys are Crufflers....they'll probably be around in a bit.

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 1146
    (6/7/01 4:03:32 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Welcome Aboard TCCOX!

    Alphamale
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 299
    (6/7/01 6:23:00 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Welcome to the board tccox.
    "Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyranize their teachers."--Socrates (470-399 B.C.)

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 458
    (6/7/01 8:16:27 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Welcome to the board! Yes - check out Shotgun News, websites, etc. A lot of the dealers will note when items are C&R eligible - check Southern Ohio Guns, AIM Surplus, Inter Ordnance, Springfield Sporters, SAMCO, Century International Arms, and J&G Sales just to name a few. Best thing to do, make a bunch of copies of your license, make sure to sign them in blue or red ink, and send them to all the potential places you may eventually wish to buy something from. Then down the road as you puruse your GunList or Shotgun News and see a juicy item you just can't live without, pick up the phone, call em, charge it, and they ship it.

    Now following the auction sites, generally any military rifle produced prior to 1946 (and most handguns also), plus specifically listed later items are C&R eligible (refer to the BATF website, C&R list). If you see an auction you think is potentially C&R, e-mail the seller, tell them you are a C&R license, and ask if the item is C&R eligible. Then bid away!
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 743
    (6/7/01 9:40:53 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    I dub thee, "Sir Cruffler!" Welcome!

    Do just like Bob says, make a million copies of your license, then store it in a safe place. (Make sure the FFL number is legible, Century sent mine back 'cause they said they couldn't read it - funny, no one else had that problem...)

    Then get a SGN, and send one signed in Ink to EVERY ad that lists CR guns (or even if they don't and just might someday. The license MAY get you dealer prices on their accesories and stuff.) Enclose a letter with it, saying you want catalogues, access to pricing on the web, etc. Century, for example, won't let you see the dealer pricing on the web until they have your FFL, then they e-mail you the code.

    Then sit back and wait for the catalogues to start rolling in, you'll have bathroom reading for the rest of your life!

    Then, put a couple copies of the license in your glove box, NEVER leave home without it. Anywhere you travel you might stumble on a CR, anywhere in the country, you might want to buy. Get a CCW, if you can, it's the easiest way to prove out of state you can legally own a handgun where you live, and with the CRFFL, you can buy a CR handgun anywhere in the country.

    Hit as many pawnshops and gunshops as you can...when you travel.

    If the gun advertised has C&R next to it, you can buy it through the mail.

    I've bought only from SOG and AIM, so far, I've had my cruffle since September.

    Since then I've bought 17 rifles and an EG Makarov until I ran out of money, currently on "hold."

    HINT: Don't know what you are into, but get your EG Makarov if you can find any left, and your Romanian SKS ASAP, if you are remotely interested, they are disappearing FAST. If you don't get them soon, you soon won't be able to at all. They are GREAT deals that are going away...never to return. I missed out on the cheap Swedish Mausers right when I got my CRFFL, and while I'm not in a position to get one just yet, they are going up in price DAILY, I'll probably miss out.

    Have fun, don't bother to go back to the other!

    Pull up a chair and be a regular here!







    tccox
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (6/7/01 10:02:20 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Thanks to all for the welcome. Special thanks to Polish & Bob for some very good points. I'll make copies by the stack and get them out to the sellers. I'm mainly interested in the old military rifles and pistols. Price is my first concern. I like em cheeeep but I also want them in shooting condition.

    Again, Thanks to all for your suggstions. Tom

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 746
    (6/7/01 10:17:21 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    The cheapest and best to shoot militarys out there are all the different Mosins, I'm partial to the M44s.

    The VG Russians from SOG are probably the best deals, they are cosmolined all to heck and are a pain to clean up but they are complete, with rods usually. Get yourself the deal where you buy 2 or 3 at a time, you might get lucky and get one matching, or else pay the $10 handpicked on one of the three.

    I need to only pick up a Romanian and a Type 53 and my collection of 44s will be ALMOST complete. Of course, I only have two different types of Russian Stocks, there are more, and I still need a post-war Russky, and and EG one too...

    You'll need to get at least one Polish 44 too...

    You can pick the best one or two to keep, and sell the other(s) to get money to buy more. You are NOT allowed to "deal," but you ARE allowed to "sell or dispose of any or all of your collection."

    You will probably sell your "culls" for more than you paid for it, but you won't get rich. After all, you are buying sight unseen and taking the chance, your buyer will know EXACTLY what he's getting after you clean it up and describe it to him, that's worth something.

    But beware, when I do this I fall in love with ALL of them, and have a tough time parting with any...

    The $39 "Good" MN 91/30s intrigue me, I have several.
    They are really ratty, (I call it "dropped in the rubble" condition)non-matching, no rods, BUT they have CHARACTER. SOG charged me $5 for a handpick on my 43, it was worth it...

    Get 3 at least to keep, SOG will let you pick dates and arsenals if you ask nicely. Get a prewar Tula, a prewar Ishevsk, to compare, then get a 1943 one of either, there are neat comparisons between wartime and prewars, too.

    I haven't even started on the Finnish MNs or 91s yet...

    They are good shooters too, ammo is CHEAP.

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 461
    (6/8/01 6:26:00 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Another good deal going is the Star Model B 9mm pistol now available from SOG.

    Being the Spanish semi-auto pistol lunatic I am, cruising the auctions and bidding has been a major pastime over the past year. I can pick up the old Jo Lo Ars, Astras, WWI contract guns etc. by winning auctions, and then sending off the postal money order and C&R FFL. When I do pick up one of the collectors pieces from someone, I wright a note on my copy of the C&R FFL I send them as to what I am looking for. There are a couple different dealers across the country that now keep me on their watch list, and I occasionally hear from them when they run across something.

    Another useful tool is to set up a Pay Pal account - makes the auction purchasing a lot easier if the seller accepts Pay Pal.
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    WyomingSwede
    Moderator
    Posts: 32
    (6/8/01 6:49:23 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Welcome aboard also....dont fool around ... pick up a swede mauser so you'll have at least one quality surplus rifle to play with. Price is going up and supply going down... dont wait they will be going up. 6.5 is a fine caliber also.....there thats my plug...regards swede
    Wyoming Swede

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 464
    (6/8/01 7:04:31 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    I tend to blow most of my 6.5 Swede ammo through my Ljungman 42B.
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 751
    (6/8/01 7:32:42 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Hey Swede, I'm going to Friendship tomorrow, gonna take one of my 44s with me...last time I was there there was a CR dealer there that had a ton of Swedes...I of course was really polish and bought an M95 Steyr for the price I coulda got a Swede, (don't laugh) and my son bought his Arisaka, instead of a Swede. (Chip off the old block, eh?)

    If he's there, maybe he'll give me a decent trade in on a Swede...

    tccox
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (6/9/01 1:04:45 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del New C&r GUY
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    Thanks Bob, Polish, Andy etal,

    Which of you guys is from Indiana?? I get to Indy occasionally. Sweety has a sister who lives there. I bought my last two guns there and had to have someone else sign for them. Was told that if I am from out of state,they could not sell to me.
    Have I created a monster?? Before C&R, I was just a person who could buy from flea market etc. What about now if I buy from who ever?? Say I buy three C&R guns from SOG and want to get rid of two, do I have to submit paperwork??

    I fully realize there ain't no easy way when dealing with Uncle Sam but I hope you guys can help me out. Thanks again, Tom

    Rons Toys
    Moderator
    Posts: 194
    (6/9/01 4:55:01 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    Welcome Tccox, We have a pretty good bunch of guys/girls around here who share their love of guns and shooting. Stick around you will have good friends around.

    Bob, I had a couple of the Ljungmans, one was orignal 95% and the other was just reconditioned and unfired.
    Ron

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 765
    (6/9/01 7:39:12 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: New guy with new C&R and lots of questions
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    I live in Indiana about 1 hour SE of Indy.

    With your CR you can now buy any CR rifle or CR handgun anywhere in the US, just make sure to have it with you, and be prepared to prove you can own a handgun where you live. For example, if you had a CRFFL in NYC, or California, you probably couldn't buy a handgun.

    If you buy three and sell two, you still have to log them in and out. If not, you would be in trouble.

    Anything you buy by benefit of the CRFFL has to be logged.

    Now, you cannot INTENTIONALLY buy to sell...THAT would be dealing. When I buy 3 or 5 of one at one time, I may eventually be planning to sell or trade some, that's collecting, but I'm not in business. Sometimes I get all great ones and keep them all, sometimes they all suck, or match one I have already, so it gets sold.

    There is nothing in the law which says how long you have to keep it, or about making a profit, you just can't be "making a livelihood." I make it a rule that EVERY dime I make selling a CR goes into BUYING another. One of the clauses in the law is "to improve, or dispose of a collection."
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