New or used?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by polishshooter, Jul 6, 2007.

?

DO you prefer to buy NEW or USED guns?

  1. NEW only, virtually NEVER "used...."

    16.4%
  2. USED only, virtually NEVER "new..."

    14.8%
  3. I buy either, but prefer USED....

    26.2%
  4. I buy either, but prefer NEW....

    42.6%
  1. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Pat and I got into a "discussion" on another thread helping a newbie decide what handgun to buy for his first one, that devolved into a "I never buy a used gun" vs. a "I would never buy a NEW gun" "difference of opinion...":);)

    It got me to thinking , Eureka! How about a POLL!:):):)


    Here's my take, much like buying a car, the BIGGEST hit in value you take is DRIVING IT OFF THE LOT! Heck, just like any CAR you see on the road without DEALER plates, is a USED car, so WHY pay the PREMIUM for one??? And don't give me the "reliability" issue, MANY "new" cars are "hangar queens" and lemons, while I have driven, purchased and/or owned a total of 9 since 1998 that had in excess of 100,000 miles on them with almost nothing replaced on them but TIRES ...and can count the times they left me stranded on my hand with NO thumb....but I HAVE been stranded by a 2 week old "New" car before.... In fact right now the car I have that has the LEAST miles on it is my 91 s-10 deer hunting truck! My wife's 2001 Impala (My company car when new, I bought it at turn in with 62k on it) has 112000 on it (only major repair, a $400 computer at 100k) My daughter's 02 Taurus, 137000 miles, my FIRST company car with this company, first major repair this week, the alternator (and yeah, it could use struts, but let HER pay for that!:p ) My son's 04 Escape with 117000 on it, a guy I work with COmpany Car "turn in," and my current company car, an 05 Escape with 118000 on it...they are now experimenting with us driving them the length of the three year lease, regarless of the miles, I will have around 150k on it next march, and intend to buy IT too for hunting and retire the S-10!

    My father, on his deathbed, when we were having that priceless conversation about life, shared with me his ONLY regret in his life...EVER buying a New vehicle! He said if he had bought ALL his cars used at least 1 year old, and INVESTED the money he lost driving it off the darn lot, he would have left us a LOT of money...


    Guns are the SAME way, except the money you save TODAY, is MORE money you'll make when you SELL it becasue of appreciation, UNLIKE cars...

    Like when the S&W .500 mags came out, what were they? $1000??

    Less than a YEAR later you can buy "slightly used" ones at ANY Gunshow for $750-$800....:p MANY guys bought them because they were BIG or COOL or NEW, fired them ONCE, couldn't handle them and TRADED them back in!!!:p

    Wait a few years, see if the "new-fangled Model" is reliable, then buy one USED for a lot less and enjoy it along with all your OTHER "used" guns...which you HAVE to admit, are ALL "Used Guns" NOW unless they are still "NIB, unfired", but what fun is THAT????;)


    And why LIMIT yourself? You would PASS on a good deal on a pre-64 model 70 or maybe a nice Model 12, or a Garand, or a mauser or Enfield or an Ithaca 1911A1 or any OTHER discontinued or no longer available firearm because it's USED????


    Your serve, Pat!;) :D :D :D
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  2. Sackett

    Sackett Member

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    Will not buy a used gun for the simple reason that some idiot has probably hot loaded it to the point of damage, or tinkered with it until they were dissatisfied with its performance. I'm not a gun expert and will not take the chance on damaged goods, just as I'm not a auto expert and will not buy a used vehicle.
    After reading so many posts across the internet about hot loading weapons, I'm firm in my resolve, and will be content to pay more for security of mind.
  3. Bruce FLinch

    Bruce FLinch New Member

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    Call me Lucky. I have bought about an equal # of used & new guns. Never got a lemon. Not that I liked all the guns I bought, but they all worked ok.
  4. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Sackett, I appreciate your point, especially about not being a "Gun Expert," BUT your worry about somebody "Hot Loading" for it to the point of damage is virtually unfounded....

    "Hot Loading" to the point of actually damaging the GUN itself is pretty hard to do, unless of course it's a GLOCK:p :eek:

    Now, yeah, I wouldn't buy say a Garand without guaging it for wear, and I at LEAST do a "Polish Headspace Test" on my 50-60-70 year old rifles I collect and SHOOT, and would be VERY careful buying a used rifle in some hot load like .220 Swift that might have MANY rounds down it either on the range or on varmints, you DON'T have to be an "expert," to buy used! MOST of the time the general wear of the OUTSIDE of the gun, including little things like how BADLY are the SCREWS buggered:p and a check down the barrel will tell you EXACTLY how the gun was treated. With even just a LITTLE knowledge and experience, it's pretty easy to tell what guns were owned by a "Hamfister" and what ones were "Well Used but Used WELL..."

    That's the REAL reason people and collectors don't like buying "refinished" guns...BESIDES the value being lessened if not "original," you can mistake it's condition by it's "looks," but again, USUALLY the quality of the "refinish" ALSO reflects whether it may have been "rebuilt" to standards, or even BETTER than standard...

    MILITARY weapons on the other hand, that our troops and others DEPEND ON for their LIVES, have been "rebuilt" MANY times in it's lifetime, so that too is not as big a deal....

    Even in other threads here you see insinuations of "having to sell guns" to pay bills, or guns as "investments...." MOST guns are built to standards MUCH higher than CARS ever were...There are PLENTY of "deals" out there to be found!

    Very FEW used firearms, at least on the shelves of reputable stores, ESPECIALLY in this age of "frivolous lawsuits," are "unsafe...." In fact, at stores like Cabelas and Gander Mountain, they have them ALL "checked by a gunsmith" before they sell them as "Used...."

    Now yeah, once I found a SWEET 1893 WInchester at a gun shop, that some numbnuts had refinished into a NICE looking "Slug Gun" with a short barrel and a Lyman Reciever sight:cool: , and the young guy behind the counter at the TIME thought it was a '97.... I have RARELY found any guns "needing repair" or "unsafe to fire" not advertised, and thus PRICED accordingly.....

    Plus I HAVE bought USED Guns from a shop before that DID have a hidden defect, that the shop owner stood behind and REPAIRED for no charge...you RARELY get "AS IS" from a shop on guns like you get with a car, except from "private owners...."


    But to each his own, if you INSIST on buying only new, then I guess all those great deals you miss will be there for ME!:p :p :p ;) :)
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  5. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    Didn't have my choice in the poll:

    "I'll buy either and don't give a rat's patootie either way."
  6. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    Actually, John, I ran out of choices and probably couldn't have spelled "patootie" anyway, SORRY!:D
  7. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    HEY Pistol, how MANY "New, Virtually NEVER used" guns have you BOUGHT with your C&R so far? Just WONDERING...

    I got bad news for ya'....SORRY!



    "Rearsenaled to Like New" 60 or 70 year old Mausers and Mosins aren't REALLY "new....":p :p
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  8. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    Many of the "used" guns I have bought come with the original box of ammo they got for it. They took it out, shot it ONCE, then put it away in a closet or something.

    I can only think of one gun that I bought brand new, and it was a POS 22 derringer. It wore out REAL quick. On the other hand, I've had a BUNCH of "like new" but "used" guns that preform flawlessly for years.

    I will admit, that with as many years as I have been doing it, there have been a couple of lemons. I bought them at the right price because of that fact.

    So for me, I'll continue to let someone else "drive it off the lot" and reap the advantages afterward.
  9. Polish, when I've bought C&R guns I've been as careful as possible to buy only the best available, even if that costs a little more. Generally, I won't buy anything rated less than "very good to excellent" by a reliable dealer, and even then I've sometimes been disappointed. Yet I think that C&R stuff, which is historical collector oriented, is in a different category than what your basic question implies. Only very rarely have I purchased a used handgun or rifle, and that is based on the not unreasonable theory that used guns can often end up like used cars: you never really know what you have until after the check clears and the transmission falls out! :p I have bought used weapons, but only when I wanted the gun for something non-critical. I have not, and will not, ever buy a used handgun that I intend to use for CCW. It's simply not worth the risk in my opinion.
  10. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    This must be one of the FEW :)p ) times I would have toi disagree with you , PS...

    I would NEVER trust my life to a NEW gun, or at least one I had not personally put HUNDREDS or even THOUSANDS of rounds down the barrel! Which at least THEN makes it "well used..."

    NEW guns fail to feed regularly, NEW guns have burrs and rough spots, NEW guns need feed ramps polished and barrels throated to be SURE they will feed ANY bullet much less empty cases which your CCW auto SHOULD, NEW guns RARELY have the sights, or grips I want or need, new guns RARELY let their mags fall free with only gravity, new guns especially in this age of "mass production" and "product liability," rarely EVER have an "acceptable trigger pull"....plus, WHY do you think there is even the TERM "Break-in period?"




    No I won't give you that "Trust your life" cop-out, which is what it is....it's a "feel good position" NOT based in fact, regarding ANYTHING mechanical....if you BELIEVE ANYTHING "New is SAFER," you are NAIVE, with all due RESPECT....;)



    Do you REALLY want to fly on that "new" Airbus on your next trip to Europe? Why do you THINK pilots say "If it ain't BOEING, I ain't GOING?" Give me a 20 or 25 year old well maintained and inspected 747 ANY DAY of the week, and when that Airbus has logged as many trouble free miles, MAYBE I'd feel safer....



    ...and YES it IS like a car...you and EVERYONE else trusts their LIFE EVERDAY to 100% USED parts in that car, every time you start it up in the morning since the day AFTER you "bought it new!"...there is NOTHING that cannot or should not be INSPECTED and MAINTAINED regularly in anything mechanical, REGARDLESS of age...and parts simply can be REPLACED when worn, which then makes the car, or gun, AS SAFE OR even SAFER than when it was NEW!

    Now if you can afford to trade for a new car every 12 months/12000 miles, I can see that you MIGHT think "new" are more reliable...but I'd BET sooner or later you will even have problem with one of THEM....After all, why are there Warranties???? But the COST you pay for that mythical "good feeling?" What a RIPOFF for no provable benefit except the "new car smell!":p They ought to let you "buy 3 get one free!" if you do that.

    But I guess the UAW thanks you...:rolleyes:



    But a GUN, especially most OLD high-quality guns, were designed and built to last SEVERAL lifetimes of normal use....your CAR was designed to last MAYBE 5 years MAX....but even THEN, are there ANY cars out there OLDER than 5 years that are reliable and safe? MOST of them still are with ANY kind of maintenance....and the POS cars out there that ARE unsafe? It has NOTHING to do with age, that irresponsible DRIVER/Owner would be JUST as dangerous in a NEW car, IMHO....


    Now maybe it HAS something to do with experience, including EXACTLY what that experience is...like if you are a competent even if only a "shadetree" mechanic that likes to work on cars or anything else mechanical, you are more likely to be driving an OLDER car that's maintained, if you ever raced a stockcar literally on the edge of potential death and realize that MOST of that car was salvaged from a JUNK yard....but is probably SAFER at 100mph on the banks than the vehicle you DROVE to the track...it's probably the same thing with guns...

    Maybe those of us that like to tinker with guns, take them apart, figure out how to improve them, do most of our "minor" gunsmithing ourselves, trust "used" better than new...

    Heck, if I can't take it apart and understand what EVERY part does or doesn't do, and find SOMETHING I can polish or maybe a burr to remove or a part or a spring to replace to make it BETTER, I don't trust it at ALL....:p
  11. You missed my point entirely, Polish. It is axiomatic that any weapon one intends to use for self-defense must be well tested prior to commitment for that use. The point is, I will not rely on a weapon someone else "tested." In other words, any weapon I carry for CCW is one I bought NIB and have personally broken in and know positively, from having put several hundred rounds through it myself, that it is as reliable as I can make it. Moreover, I will buy only top-end firearms from the best manufacturers to start with if the weapon is to be used for self-defense. Call it paranoia if you like, but that's the way I see it.
  12. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    OK. paranoia it is!:D

    That probably explains your irrational "hard-headedness" better than any other word...ALONG with your propensity towards plastic guns that blow up for no good reason....:D

    No, I got your point PRECISELY.

    All I am saying is that you CAN get to that level of dependability and "bet your life reliability," sometimes EASIER, with a USED gun and use the SUBSTANTIAL savings to BUY MORE AMMO to practice with! Which in MY book is better for ANY shooter, much less a NOVICE, without unlimited resources!

    ALONG with the fact you could just as EASILY pay the PREMIUM for "New," and NOT get that anywhere NEAR that same level of trust....yes, EVEN from a QUALITY manufacturer, and have to spend as much or MORE to get it "RIGHT!"!

    The fact is simply that "NEW" or "USED" does NOT in ANY way guarantee or preclude ANYTHING in the way of dependability, accuracy, safety, or ANY other comparison! For every "clunker" out there in the USED market, I can show you a "new" product RECALL....

    I hate to shake your world, BUT....that "Peace of mind" you get buying "new?" It's ALL in your head, NOT borne out by facts....but if it makes you feel better to PAY for it, go ahead....

    You say you would NEVER trust ANY gun without thoroughly testing it...so explain to me WHAT exactly AT THAT POINT is the DIFFERENCE in your mind between one "Thoroughly Tested and found utterly reliable" that you bought USED, or the SAME gun purchased "NIB"?????

    What IS the difference in your quote below, IF we replaced the italics with "bought New OR Used and"?????? NOTHING. You have arrive to the same point irrespective of the PATH, new or used....and getting there one way is no FASTER than the other!

    "In other words, any weapon I carry for CCW is one I bought NIB and have personally broken in and know positively, from having put several hundred rounds through it myself, that it is as reliable as I can make it."

    The TRUE "Peace of mind" occurs at the END of that statement, not in the PURCHASE....no matter WHAT you paid initially!.

    But TOO MANY people substitute "NEW IN BOX" for all the testing, and practice, and have a utterly FALSE sense of security or "Peace of Mind," that could get them KILLED. Many times they try to have it BOTH ways, they NEVER shoot it, to keep it "NIB" condition as an "investment," NEVER truly knowing if it even FUNCTIONS,.. But it's NEW, right? It SHOULD work...:p

    On the other hand most people I know who buy a gun USED, immediately shoot it, and shoot it a LOT, since they are not WORRIED about wear or tear, and want to be SURE it works...

    The old saying (was it Jeff Cooper or Joh Wayne?:p ) "Men carrying new shiney guns are a dime a dozen, beware of the guy with an OLD WORN gun because he just MIGHT know how to USE it" makes much BETTER sense to me....








    Bottom line, to me, the ONLY good thing about people wasting their money buying new, is it keeps firearms manufacturers in BUSINESS, which is overall a good thing, because it means TODAY's new will be available TOMORROW used at a much better price, with all the possible bugs worked out....
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  13. Don Buckbee

    Don Buckbee New Member

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    All of my centerfire rifles are new when I buy them, mainly for reasons stated above. That way I'm certain they haven't been abused.
    But, I have bought several 22 Rimfire rifles used. Being selective in who I buy them from has kept me from getting a lemon. All of the used
    22's have been excellent shooters too. Some of the used 22's I got from Dealers, and others from private individuals. I made sure that all had good credentials before making the purchase. These 22's have been out of production for a long time, and have a reputation for excellent accuracy. There just aren't current production rifles that can equal the older Martinis, Walthers or the Suhls, so I buy used.

    Don
  14. bunnyhunter12

    bunnyhunter12 New Member

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    My Win. 1300 was NEW and after three years of dragging her through the bushes chasing the dog, who is chasing a rabbit, who seems to be chasing me in one big circle, she still looks new.

    That said, a friend's wife who doesn't have her PAL yet (possesion aquisition license) got me to buy a Win. 120 Ranger last Christmas for him, as a surprise. I took it home and stripped, cleaned and polished it up so it would be all nice and shiny under the tree. That shotgun is ~20 years old I guess, if not more and I'd trade my 1300 for it any day even though I paid a couple hundred more.
  15. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    I'd like to think I know enough about guns of all kinds to be able to tell If I am gonna get a good gun or a junk and abused gun. That is one good thing about working in a gun shop is that I have seen a many of guns took apart and I know what they should look like, And what they do look like if they have ever been mistreated
    Or atlest that is what makes me feel good about buying used guns :D :D
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