NEW (to me) 1911 Clones--Any good?

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 8, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
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    Location:
    Wazzu WA
    HondoJohn6508
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 82
    (4/23/02 11:11:10 am)
    Reply NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
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    Century Arms is marketing a 1911 clones with custom features made in the Phillippines.
    "All parts except the grip screws and dovetailed front sight interchange with standard 1911 parts."
    Extended slide release and safety,spring guide rod, skeletonized hammer and trigger, magazine bumper,dovetail sights and beavertail type grip safety.
    Anybody out there had the opportunity to see/handle/shoot these firearms? Inquiring minds wish to know and I figured this was the place to ask!!!!- Ol' John

    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 310
    (4/23/02 4:16:18 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    hmmm... when I think of the 1911 and the Phillipines, I think of it being the place they were proven, not manufactured.

    What's the advantages of this piece? What are they claiming?

    I'm very skeptical about it, interested to learn more about it.


    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2034
    (4/23/02 6:25:46 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm not familiar with this particular piece, but other 1911s made in the Phillipines don't have a very good reputation.

    Best to stick with known quality like Springfield, Kimber, Wilson, etc.

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1440
    (4/25/02 12:23:12 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    John, a friend bought the same pistol you described and it's junk. Stay away from this one.

    Smoky14
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 115
    (4/25/02 3:46:31 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm with shooter. I hate to make sweeping statements as I'm sure there is an exception, but if it comes from the P.I. and it ain't made out of monkey pod...IT'S JUNK.

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 4257
    (4/25/02 5:29:32 pm)
    Reply
    Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I know they ordered 3,000 1911's from Auto Ordnance
    back in 90 or 91, I was there when they were shipped.
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1442
    (4/25/02 7:09:58 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Smoky, no ALL their 1911's anr junk. The Charles Daly 1911 is made there and it's a good quality pistol, but their mags are junk.

    jun
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (4/25/02 9:45:14 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have to disagree with the statement that all 1911s made in the Philippines are junk. Try to log on to www.armscor.com.ph and find out why.

    edited to activate hyperlink

    Edited by: ruffitt at: 4/26/02 6:17:04 am

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3065
    (4/26/02 6:49:32 am)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ARMSCOR, the sign of excellence?

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO k

    jun
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (4/30/02 1:03:43 am)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Zigzag2, I didn't say ARMSCOR was excellent, but it surely isn't junk. Nice emoticon, though.

    Sifu Davo
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (9/8/02 9:18:20 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
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    Hi fellas

    I shoot a Norinco 1911A1 clone that just keeps going and going. It's Milspec and forged (not cast) so very strong. The visible elements are a bit basic in terms of machining excellence but the real guts seem to be Ok (Milspec). I like it because it's the .45 that Sergeant York used - rather than a tricked up target job - and, as long as I only feed it roundnosed ammo, it seems to keep shooting when more expensive guns are jamming.

    Same thing with Norinco rifles - my son has a Norinco JW15 .22 repeater that he's placed nationally in some junior won competitions against people with customised Anschutzs - and all the parts are interchangable with Brno/CZ Mk 2 rifles.

    nunz
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (9/16/02 10:16:38 am)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ill just leave to you guys to guess where im from

    let me just clarify a few things

    armscor IS indeed a very good company. in fact they export several thousand of guns to other countries. charles daly's are in fact, made in (guess where), and they have in fact very good quality frames. although i can't say the same for the gun itself. what my fellow shooters here usually do( yes, in manila), is buy a norinco or armscor gun, replace everything but the frame and you got a great performance gun. they end up spending about $200 for the armscor/norinco gun, and about $150 more on wilson/chip/colt parts. the result is a very tough gun that performs extremely well, even rivaling that of colt's.

    although i myself think of doing this myself, i just resorted to the lazy man's way of owning a great 1911. i was able to purchase a colt gold cup trophy for about $1200, and have not changed a single thing on it(who would?)

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4196
    (9/16/02 11:47:16 am)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
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    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    i was able to purchase a colt gold cup trophy for about $1200
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Dude, like were you lucky or what?

    nunz
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (9/16/02 1:26:27 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    what's the going price of a very mint condition gold cup trophy sts there? it's the version with elliason sights,bideki trigger,kings bushing,etc...

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4198
    (9/16/02 2:12:54 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    100% $895.00 www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=3217611

    I recently paid a premium of $800.00 for a brand new blue Trophy.

    I should have bought a Kimber


    In this age where truth is fleeting and mass manipulation is common, the ability to detect when something doesn't make sense is a valuable one.


    Edited by: Zigzag2 at: 9/16/02 4:49:50 pm

    Crpdeth
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 120
    (9/17/02 4:23:30 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
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    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    buy a norinco or armscor gun, replace everything but the frame
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Nunz...Does this not tell you anything? Now are you impling that there is something wrong with the frames on "wilson/chip/colt" ?

    Whats the advantage here? The way I see it, your admited savings are only about 100 bucks, as opposed to just buying a new Colt.

    nunz
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (9/20/02 11:20:47 am)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    the savings should run at about $200-$300 . its very hard to get by the exact computation since i am putting into account the taxes paid here. a good example would be the colt gold cup trophy i had recently purchased. it was even selling at a gun show here in manila for about $1,400. the prices of foreign guns here cost about %50 more than the MSRP. so when you compute for savings, try adding that extra %50 to the gun value and you'll see what i meant about saving.

    i wasn't implying that colt/wilson/chip frames aren't good (otherwise, i wouldn't own 3 colts), it was simply an advice for those under budget here in manila.

    Crpdeth
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 124
    (9/20/02 3:27:36 pm)
    Reply ok
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Okay, I'm with ya now...Only thing I can say is, I'm proud to be an American, dang, that seems high!
    How are your taxes otherwise? Do you guys pay Social Security, FICA, and other taxes based on your income, or are these monies considered already collected through your "high priced" purchases?

    nunz
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (9/20/02 11:57:28 pm)
    Reply Re: ok
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    oh, we still have to pay those taxes. its just that firearms are really expensive here in manila. that is why more people resort to purchasing "loose" firearms since they cost a bit cheaper. it is also good practice to have at least one "loose" firearm so that in case of a martial law, you'll have at least one gun you won't surrender to the government.

    so if i were to choose between dressing up an armscor/norinco frame and paying a steep price for a colt? i'd choose colt in a heartbeat



    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2757
    (9/21/02 8:54:05 am)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Meanwhile, back at Hondo's original question......

    Some are, some aren't. I don't know of any so bad that they're dangerous, but quality can vary considerably.

    Colt, Wilson, Kimber, Springfield....are all generally high quality M1911s. Depends on what you want an '11 for.

    If you want something to drive tacks at 25 yards or a super special Combat gun, it's gonna cost you. If you just want a shooter or plinker, you can get away with a lot less. You generally get what you pay for.

    If what you're looking for is a quality basic M1911 at a reasonable price, you might want to consider one of those arsenal refurbished Argintine Systema 1927s.

    www.cruffler.com/JLD.html

    Crpdeth
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 127
    (9/22/02 5:41:44 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It is also good practice to have at least one "loose" firearm so that in case of a martial law, you'll have at least one gun you won't surrender to the government.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Just one?

    b9904
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (10/7/02 7:36:32 am)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    no... i think one m16, m14 would be more apropriate

    Chas
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (10/7/02 6:14:01 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I recently purchased the Blue Thunder 1911 .45 manufactured by Shooter's Arms Man. and imported by CAI. The barrel is pretty good; the slide and frame are snug; the frame ramp and barrel is a good match and everything is smooth.

    The one hang up I had was the slide remained open with ammo still in the mag (once). This, according to "sightm1911", is not uncommon and is easy to fix (ammo activating the slide stop). I was suprised at the accuracy out of the box. Maybe I got lucky. Knowing that it's an entry level gun and for the price I have no complaints (yet).

    shooter45 seemed to think the Rock Island Armory .45 shot okay and it is also manufactured in the Phil. (from Feb post).

    chas

    Edited by: Chas at: 10/8/02 3:24:42 pm

    yodarkritch
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (10/23/02 4:46:04 pm)
    Reply Re: NEW(to me)1911 Clones--Any good?
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    jstrain1@cfl.rr.

    The discussions about Philippine 1911 evokes some elaboration. Check out Octobers (iirc) American Rifleman article on the special production facility at Smith and Wesson. besides making short run-"neatos" like the Schofield, they make 1911 frames for a number of high quality custom 1911 builders. They frequently attach Armscore parts to the
    S & W frames

    There are a couple quasi-1911s I have that surprised me with their accuracy and performance. Fiirestorm (a Llama-Bersa descendant) for $270.00 -two tone from a rest gave me all 8 in a 2.25 " bull at 15 meters

    The other, FEG GKK 45 is a blown up HP-clone appearing in .45 is also quite accurate. However poor front sight design caused mine the throw the front sights in first 90 rounds. Dealer-importer replaced it free after remounting the sights and even silver soldering them

    Yodar

    b9904
    Member
    Posts: 34
    (10/25/02 8:43:43 am)
    Reply PI 1911
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    wow! i never thought that S&W were using 1911 frames from the Philippines

    DBKNJ
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (12/10/02 8:02:15 am)
    Reply Re: PI 1911
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi guys, Newbie here,
    I have been reading this and haven't seen anyone mention the new Dan Wesson's. They are American made and of great quality. I have the Stainless Pointman Major in .45ACP. If you'd like to see more info on these quality firearms go to www.1911forum.com. There is alot of info including a range report on the new Patriot. Also, they are building a 10mm Razorback from suggestions from the forum readers. Check it out, it's quite amazing.

    Chas
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 82
    (12/10/02 3:19:56 pm)
    Reply dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Welcome aboard DBKNJ!! I was very happy with my Dan Wesson .357 revolver. Thanks for the update on their new line of semi-auto's. Keep us posted when you get to the range (accuracy, reliability, etc.).

    Hope to see you often here at TFF!! Some of the natives may growl but non of them bite (that I know of).

    chas

    DBKNJ
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (12/10/02 6:59:05 pm)
    Reply Re: dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks for the welcome, Chas. I also have a DW .357 blue 6". Love it!
    As for my Major, I shoot at the local range in TDI matches. Tactical Defense International. I can honestly say my gun has never had a failure of any kind. The only thing I have changed is I put on a Pachmyr rubber wrap-around with wood panels. Got it in the SportsmansGuide catalog. Very comfortable and I feel I have more control with it.

    The New York State TDI championship was won with a Dan Wesson late in 2001. I was at the match and the guy that won is a local Police officer. He's good!

    Going again this Saturday for a toys-for-tots shoot. It should be fun and it's for a great cause. I'll let you know how I do, though I'm not that good yet, but it's a blast to compete!

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4837
    (12/11/02 7:17:39 am)
    Reply Re: dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DBKNJ, practice, practice, practice... GOOD will come





    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4838
    (12/11/02 7:20:42 am)
    Reply Re: dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I went back a few pages and brought this post up. You all may find it interesting.
    pub145.ezboard.com/fthefirearmsforumfrm15.showMessage?topicID=173.topic



    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    Edited by: Zigzag2 at: 12/11/02 7:21:39 am

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3176
    (12/11/02 9:56:41 am)
    Reply Re: dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chas, yodarkritch, & DBKNJ......Hi Guys, and welcome to TFF!

    Hope you'll all stick around and enjoy all of our Forums.

    DBKNJ
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (12/11/02 10:27:47 am)
    Reply Re: dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Xracer,
    Thanks for the welcome. BTW, what do you race? MX? I used to race my Honda trx250r in scrambles racing years ago. Got old and slow-to-heal so I just ride now.
    I'll stick around the forum, my wife seems to think I'm addicted or something to these gun forums . I just don't understand her sometimes. She's always kicking me off so she can get on E-bay! Anyone have a cheap computer i can buy?
    I really find alot of very nice people on these gun forums. I've made alot of good friends that I've never met face-to-face but just know they'd be nice to meet in person. Thanks guys...........

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4840
    (12/11/02 11:28:10 am)
    Reply Re: dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    cheap computer...

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...








































    try Ebay..... hehehe



    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3182
    (12/11/02 6:24:22 pm)
    Reply Re: dan wesson
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DB.....I used to race sports cars....Morgan +4, Mini-Cooper, Spitfire, 'Vette, and NSU TTS. Many years ago...in a Galaxy far, far, away. (Actually in the northeast in the '60's & '70's)
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2003
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