New Yorkers fight three new mosques

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by jack404, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    Project planned near ground zero

    Holy wars are breaking out all over New York.

    Three separate plans to build Muslim worship centers in New York City have proved more difficult and contentious than expected, igniting protests by local residents and anti-jihad activists and prompting charges of “Islamophobia” and bigotry.

    The three projects raise different sets of issues, are set in three different boroughs and are still in the planning stages.

    But together, they show that building a mosque in New York is not like building a pizza parlor — whether it’s logistical concerns about neighborhood traffic and changing demographics, the sanctity of the World Trade Center site, or backyard politics.

    New Yorkers have not been shy about their opposition, and a recent poll on the most contentious of the three projects — involving a Muslim center just two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack — shows residents stoutly opposed.

    “This is about radical Islam wanting to colonize the world,” said Joan Moriello, a community activist fighting one of the other projects. “They pretend to be tolerant, they pretend to be loving but they aren’t. It’s just starting to come bubbling up to the surface.”

    However, those kinds of reactions cause Muslim groups to cry “foul” and say objections about zoning and noise are mere covers for religious intolerance.

    The Muslim American Society, a Washington-based nonprofit group, is determined to build mosques in Brooklyn and Staten Island. A separate organization called the Cordoba Initiative, which seeks to improve relations between Islam and the West, plans to build an Islamic center just a few minutes’ walk from the site of the Sept. 11 attack.

    “The Staten Island issue and the Brooklyn issue are kind of bifold,” said Lana Safah, a spokeswoman for the Muslim American Society. “On the one side, you have a community that is concerned with logistical issues such as traffic and noise, and those are concerns we absolutely acknowledge. On the other hand, there is a lot of outside influences. There are things that are planting seeds of doubt.”

    The property of the proposed mosque on Staten Island was owned by St. Margaret Catholic Church until the Rev. Keith Fennessy decided to sell the vacant convent to the Muslim American Society in May. The group wants to use the property on Fridays for a community center and prayer hall.

    The sale, however, is in the hands of the parish’s board of trustees, which includes the pastor, two lay members of the congregation, the archdiocese’s vicar general and the archbishop.

    The decision to sell the convent was met with overwhelming opposition, which led Father Fennessy to write a letter in June to Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan withdrawing the pastor’s support of the sale.

    The parish’s board of trustees has not set a meeting date to discuss the future of the property.

    While the community awaits the meeting, Staten Islanders have rallied against the proposed mosque, carrying signs of protest near the property.

    “This is all very shocking,” said Ms. Moriello, who pointed out that Staten Island already has five mosques. “I really don’t know who was thinking this was a positive move. People have been so disenchanted.”

    The Muslim American Society has been widely accused of having ties to the jihadist Muslim Brotherhood.

    Opponents of the Staten Island sale, and critics of the Muslim American Society more generally, have zeroed in on a videotape of the society’s president, Mahdi Bray, supporting the Muslim Brotherhood at a 2000 rally outside the White House. Also, the 1993 founding of the Muslim American Society involved Muslim Brotherhood members, including Mohammed Mahdi Akef, now supreme guide for the Brotherhood in Egypt, and Ahmed Elkadi, then the leader of the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood.

    Ibrahim Ramey, the human civil rights director for the Muslim American Society, defended his group as a peaceful organization in an open letter to the press.

    “We know that we must overcome prejudice and fear, and even racism, just as other religious groups in this nation have confronted the same barriers,” he wrote.

    Ms. Safah said neighbors were angry and fearful because they know little about the organization.

    “We acknowledge that people have fears, especially from an organization they have not heard of much,” she said.

    Protesters also have rallied against plans for a mosque in Sheepshead Bay, a neighborhood in Brooklyn.

    The Muslim American Society also is funding this project, a four-story mosque and community center intended to serve 1,500 people. The site is surrounded by homes, prompting fears among residents that the mosque will cause noise, traffic and a parking shortage.

    Although much of the opposition stems from quality-of-life concerns, some people are wary of the reported connections between the Muslim American Society and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    “It’s about the Muslim American Society,” said Pamela Gellar, an author and anti-jihad and pro-Israel blogger.

    “It was originally the Muslim Brotherhood and they changed the name to make it more acceptable. I can understand why [the neighborhood] would not want the Muslim Brotherhood building a huge edifice there.”

    The Muslim Brotherhood is an international entity founded in 1928 as a youth organization. Its primary goal is to make the Koran and associated Muslim traditions the “sole reference point” for family, society and the state. The group’s headquarters are in Cairo, though the group is officially banned in Egypt.

    According to its official website, the Muslim Brotherhood’s objectives include efforts to “inform the masses, Muslim and non-Muslim of Islamic teachings.” The organization says it opposes violence as a means of achieving political goals, though it has spawned violent offshoots and the Egyptian government accuses it of numerous killings.

    Perhaps the group’s most well-known member was Sayyid Qutb, whose book “Milestones” calls for using jihad to overthrow political structures in the Muslim world. His other works criticized Western society for moral and social decadence. Jihadists worldwide, including Sept. 11 mastermind Osama bin Laden, cite Qutb as a formative influence.

    Mr. Ramey called the backlash “religious bigotry” and “hatred.”

    “Is this really happening in America — a nation that boasts of its religious tolerance and pluralism?” he said in his letter. “Sadly, the answer is, yes.”

    The furor over the Brooklyn mosque led 150 Muslim families to hold a peaceful demonstration this summer calling for respect for their right to pray and teach Islamic values, which they say condemn terrorism and violence.

    Building plans must be approved by the New York City Department of Buildings, which has not set a date for a hearing on final approval of the project.

    But perhaps the most controversial plans lie near the heart of ground zero, the site of the Sept. 11 attack in Lower Manhattan.

    The Cordoba Initiative plans to build a $100 million, 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center just two blocks from the site. Despite protests from families affected by Sept. 11, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg supports the project, arguing that the mosque’s construction is about religious freedom.

    “If somebody wants to build a religious house of worship, they should do it and we shouldn’t be in the business of picking which religions can and which religions can’t,” he said in an official statement in support of the plan. “I think it’s fair to say if somebody was going to try to on that piece of property build a church or a synagogue, nobody would be yelling or screaming. And the fact of the matter is that Muslims have a right to do it, too.”

    Ms. Gellar said the issue is rooted in the location.

    “It would be an insult, a stab in the eye, to build a megamosque,” said Ms. Gellar. “It’s a war memorial — it shouldn’t be a mosque. Not that we shouldn’t build mosques in New York, but a mosque at ground zero is offensive.”

    The Washington Times sent the Cordoba Initiative an e-mail request for an interview but received no answer.

    Pollsters have also got into the furor.

    The Quinnipiac University Polling Institute released a survey July 1 that showed that New York City voters opposed the ground zero plan 52 percent to 31 percent, with 17 percent undecided. According to 42 percent of voters, the mosque “is an insult to the memory and families of 9/11 victims.”

    Opposition polled higher than support in most demographic groups, including Democrats (45 percent to 37 percent), despite the findings that 56 percent of New Yorkers say they know a Muslim personally and more claim to have a favorable view of Islam than an unfavorable one (44 percent to 28 percent).

    The poll of 1,183 New York City registered voters, conducted June 21-28, had an error margin of 2.9 percentage points.

    It also found strong differences in the city’s boroughs — 46 percent of Manhattanites support the project and 73 percent of Staten Islanders oppose it — suggesting that the mosque fights have become entangled.

    “Liberal Manhattan accepts the mosque and trusts Islam. Staten Island, where there’s controversy about another proposed mosque, is more skeptical,” Maurice Carroll, the institute’s director, said in his group’s news release.

    Though she was not speaking specifically about the Quinnipiac poll, Ms. Safah agreed with that theory.

    “The unfortunate reality is that we’re all being linked,” she said. “We are all being backed into this corner with people saying, ‘You’re a Muslim — prove yourself.’ It’s unfortunate. It’s impeding upon our rights as Americans to worship freely.”

    Plans for the Cordoba project must be approved by the New York City Landmark Commission, which will hold a public hearing Tuesday.

    “The issue that is up for debate is whether the building has architectural, historic and cultural significance for New York,” said Lisi de Bourbon, the communications director at the New York City Landmarks Commission. “It’s strictly a matter of preserving the integrity of the building.”

    Ms. Safah said there would be no misunderstanding if people only took the time to get to know their Muslim neighbors.

    “If these communities maintain an open mind, I think we’ll more than get along fine and build great relationships,” she said.

    Ms. Moriello said that will not be enough.

    “In the end, it’s just us or them,” she said. “The sense that ‘we are all one and we are all working together’ is just not a reality.”
  2. permafrost

    permafrost Active Member

    Feb 24, 2010
    Oklahoma, USA
    The Cordoba Initiative love to reference 'Andalusia' (modern day Iberian peninsula, Spain) as a time of peace and religious tolerance when Muslims,Jews and Christians all coexisted in religious harmony. True ,but they left out the fact that the Jews and Christians were considered second- class citizens, with fewer rights, and made to pay the tax all infidels have to pay to live with the Muslims. This is their idea of religious tolerence. Hello! Wake up, Manhattan!
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011

  3. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2007
    Rochester, NY
    Islam is NOT a religion. It is a political ideology motivated by hate, couched in religious double speak. It should NOT be allowed to exist in this country.

    Muslims who say they are moderate are either LYING, or, as their religion allows, LYING. (No, that is not an error - they are lying). They are ENCOURAGED to lie to further the movement.

    They hate our laws, they hate our constitution, they hate Christians and Jews, and as such, should not be allowed to exist here. There is NO lawful reason for them to be allowed to exist in the USA. Those that say they do, are buying into an agenda of deception that they either, don't know much about because they haven't done the proper research, or they are complicit in perpetrating the lie.
  4. Gun Geezer

    Gun Geezer Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2009
    Central Florida
  5. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

    Mar 8, 2010
    colorful colorado
    If we're all honest, this is a tough one. Technically, Islam IS recognized as a religion, our opinion on this is just that, an opinion. Our laws say otherwise.
    We cannot just NOT allow the Muslim's to build their Mosque's, and you really have to ask yourself if doing so is the American way.
    The Muslims have shown OVERALL that they can be difficult if not impossible to get along with in many other countries, but can we allow that to stop the building of their places of worship in this, the first and most tolerant country founded on religous freedom?? You must admit, that smacks of hypocrisy.
    I believe firmly in religous freedom, but I am VERY leery of the Muslim's and Islam as a whole.
    Frankly, I think we have no choice but to accept it, they must be allowed to build Mosques, under the same rules as any other religious entity.
    And when the first hint or notion of any application of law other than those under our current system of laws is raised or attempted, we should quash them under our boot heels like a cockroach.
    I think that's as fair as it can get.
    As an aside, certain denominations of other religions have met with similar resistance in this country, it's not like the Muslims are the first.
  6. Well sir I am not a Baptist or a Muslim but I don;t think many have objections to Baptists building churches where ever they want as long as they obey the applicable zoning laws.

    The Muslims have the same right but they stretch it and people have got their dander up over their intransigence. They object to restaurants owned by non Muslims and serving mostly non Muslims from serving pork products and have caused some chains to go Halal. They have bought land and built a mosque next to a huge hog farm in Texas and then demanded he cease his operation because it offended them. Walk down the street of any city in a Muslim state like Saudi Arabia with a bible in your hand and a cross on a chain around your neck and you are in for a very bad day.

    Those that make the news make no bones about them not respecting any other religion other than their owns and it makes it hard for me or anybody else to be sympathetic to their cause.

    New Yorkers, you may be wrong but in this case I support you 100%. I wouldn't want them in my neighborhood either and I have no problem telling them if they don't like it here leave. Don't let the door hit your caboose as you file out the door for lands where you are more welcome.
  7. airphoto

    airphoto New Member

    Dec 8, 2010
    Not a problem .. just bury a pig on the property .. like shining a light in a dark corner .. watch 'em scatter!
  8. wyoredot

    wyoredot New Member

    Dec 16, 2009
    +1 OG, I smell trouble.
  9. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    here they have built a few mosques in various places in a area , a cluster if you will

    they;ve a few 'clusters'

    the big one here went active ..

    like in france and the UK

    they go out onto the road and side streets and block traffic

    you can imagine that 5 pm friday after noon peak hour .,.

    every friday .. it shuts down 1/5th city .. media ? HA!

    school buses cant get through and changed routes

    cab's all know so dont go near there ( or fill the streets protecting the prayers )

    then they march , "we demand sharia , to hell with democracy" etc etc etc

    we stopped that for now but it got bloody a few times

    nowdays its debates and such but the tensions are building again ,

    the rape gangs that targeted Christian girls have dissappeared for now

    again that got bloody too..

    but they never really back off, just hide behind media and press releases and "usefull idiots"

    and why i never give em a inch ...
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  10. venustus

    venustus New Member

    Oct 26, 2011
    I have no problem in muslims opening a new mosque as long as its NOT in my country or any other Christian based society.
    "In God We Trust",was definitely NOT based on islamic "ideals".
    They converted the Parthenon into a mosque!!The Byzantine Greek orthodox church of Saint Sophia into a mosque!Whats next!Maybe if they had their way,the Sydney opera house or maybe the Lincoln memorial?!?
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  11. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

    Mar 8, 2010
    colorful colorado
    Well! So much for the First Amendment,eh?(If your American) Because that's exactly where you've just gone, advocating limiting the rights of free excercise of others because you don't agree with it.
    This was my point, We CAN'T be AMERICAN and tell them they can't build here, just because We don't agree. Nor can We hold them responsible for the actions of others just because they have the same religion.
    That would be the very definition of hyprocrisy!
    In America, this is a VERY TOUGH problem, because to do what some here advocate is to open the door to others who will advocate against YOU!
    But to allow it will LIKELY open the door to home grown terrorism, based on past experience in other countries.
    I foresee a very dangerous future for America, and a home grown religous (for them) war.
    This is why I'm in a conumdrum over this, I am a Constitutionalist. This is a very touchy thing, as I do NOT trust Islamists as a whole, due to their world wide propensity for violence and intolerance towards other peoples and religions.
    Yet to say no would be as un-American as it gets.
    Lock and load folks, we're in for a rocky road.
  12. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2007
    Rochester, NY
    If you're a "constitutionalist," then, it shouldn't be hard for you to see that they should NOT be allowed to exist here, as they advocate USURPING the rule of law (constitution) with Sharia law.

    On top of that, they advocate KILLING anyone that is not a muslim.

    It's not a freedom of speech/religion issue AT ALL. It's about repelling an invasion.
  13. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

    Mar 8, 2010
    colorful colorado
    "They"?!?!? See, your doing it too. Any Constitutionalist worthy of the title CANNOT apply past deeds of others to those who have done no wrong simply because they share the same beliefs, it's hypocritical. So it IS "hard" for me to see your point. Especially in light of firearms, for to apply your logic would be to admit that firearms should NOT be allowed due to the few who have used them wrongly.
    By your reasoning, those Christians who have bombed abortion clinics and shot Doctors have tainted the rest, and therefore Christians should not be tolerated.
    And did you not read what I said about our laws and any attempts to apply Sharia law? That's why I say there WILL be more Mosques built here, and we most likely will be at war with them. Our own Bill of Rights, properly applied, may well be our own downfall.
    It IS a freedom issue effecting the very First freedom.
    Catch-22? Or prophecy? Like I said, a VERY tough issue.
  14. HunterAlpha1

    HunterAlpha1 Former Guest

    Aug 8, 2011
    Yorktown, VA
    would you allow the Nazi party to establish a headquarters here? why not? don't they have freedom of speech? so long as they only talk about killing everyone who doesn't look exactly like them, shouldn't they be allowed to run for public office?
  15. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    well here we dont have your constitution , so i guess it dont apply , freedom of speech , dont exist here due to the UN ,

    and maybe thats a good thing , from the examples set they can demand you bow to them , that your freedoms are wrong and if you say "thats BS" you get locked up for hate speech ...

    i prefer our system

    at least i get to kick the crap outta one of em or more ! before i'm locked up here

    they dont drag me away for thought crime ...
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
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