Newbie questions

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by oldfield, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. oldfield

    oldfield New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    I've recently inherited a bunch of firearms and ammo but have little knowledge to go along with them...the majority are (1908?) Springfield rifles.
    First, what is the difference between 30 caliber and 30-06?
    Which are my rifles, easy way to tell?
    Can I fire either shell in them?
    Also, they all seem to be top loading? Can they be retrofitted to take a clip? (I have one).
    Also, I got a catalog from Midsouth, box of 1000 30cals for $176, seems to good to be true...what's the catch.

    Finally, my friend just purchased an M&P 15, they told him he should only use Finocci? ammo. Why wouldn't cheaper reloads be possible?

    Thanks, sorry if I'm using wrong terminology or am posting in wrong area but like I said I'm still in the initial stages of figuring out which end to point.
  2. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    4,953
    Location:
    SW Fort Worth
    Don't worry about being "new" to firearms, we've all been there at one time ! Welcome to TFF and hopefully we can get you going in the right direction.

    1, if you have any means to photograph each gun seperately and then caption with whatever markings and info that you can find on each one; we can help you identify them pretty quickly. the caliber should be marked near the receiver.

    2, the 30 cal and a 30-06 both fire a .30 cal bullet, the 30-06 is a larger case and heavier bullet.

    3, Until the rifles are identified, I would suggest not cleaning or doing anything with them. I wouldn't recommend modifying a 1908 unless it had already been sporterized previously.

    4, on the .30cal ammo from Midsouth, what is the item number, it may or may not be a good deal depending on the specifics of the ammo.

    5, on your friends M&P - forget the Fiocchi unless you just want to spray targets; it's a decent cheaper ammo, but mil surplus and reloads would be my choice. Wonder why they suggested Fiocchi only. btw, who is "they", was that from SW or from the gunshop?

    Hope this helps you out, get some pics up if you can please and we'll do our best!!

    Semper Fi,

    Woolley
  3. oldfield

    oldfield New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    THANKS WOOLLEY! The bulk ammo: "Nosler Bulk Bullets-30cal 308dia. 168 grain Hollow Point Boat Tail Bullets. Order No. 115-65934". 1000 @$176.71

    As for my Springfields, they may be either 30cal or 30-06???
    (I only have a few here, some of which have been sporterized, the majority are still out of state & I do think that some are marked, but as I remember, not all-pics will take awhile, but that's a good idea-thanks)

    And the 30-06 will fire the 30cal, but not vice versa? (cause the 30-06 is larger??)

    As for my buddy, he's getting his info from the gunshop, I assumed on the recommendation that the Fiocchi was high end, perhaps it's just a bigger profit margin on that.
  4. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    4,953
    Location:
    SW Fort Worth
    The .30 cal or 30 carbine as commonly called, is a MUCH smaller round than a 30-06; neither round will chamber properly in the other.
    If any of the rifles have been sporterized, then they may well be a variety of .30 cal offerings. Often these chambers were reamed out to wildcat cartridges, meaning different cases and most often same caliber bullet, but distinctly different chambers. In any case though, the reciever or barrel should have the correct marking on it and if there is any doubt, have a gunsmith check it out.

    As far as the bullets from Midsouth, these are bullets only, not loaded ammunition. The bullets listed are a wee bit heavy for the 30 carbine, these are more suited for the 308 winchester.

    Fiocchi isn't bad ammo, it's a decent plinking round; don't let anyone fool him into believing its a "premium" round though.
  5. thomas44

    thomas44 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    577
    Those bullets are not ammo. They are just the bullet, used for reloading. Ammo would be a complete cartridge. The bullet is just the projectile that goes through the barrel and down range.
  6. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    11,066
    Location:
    Northeast Georgia
    The Springfield rifles are probably 1903 Springfields, maybe very similar the the attached picture, which is a 1903-A3 Springfield. If that is the case then the 30 Cal bullet referred to IS a 30.06. When the 1903 in WWI and the M1 Garand in WWII were selected for use by the US Military, the ammo used were called .30 Caliber.

    As far as the .308 bullets you have. Most 30 caliber bullets are .308 inches or 7.62 mm in diameter. There are a few exceptions such as the 7.62X39 or the .303 and a couple more. Nosler makes some fine bullets and are loadable in just about all 30 caliber cartridges, but as already said, they are NOT loaded ammunition but only the projectile.

    Keep in mind what woolleyworm said - the 30 cal carbine and the 30.06 are NOTHING alike and will not chamber in each other. I tried to find a 30 carbine bullet to show the difference but can't locate one right this minute.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  7. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    11,066
    Location:
    Northeast Georgia
    OK, I did find a .30 Cal Carbine case, so here is a picture of that .30 Caliber Carbine case standing next to a .30 Caliber (30.06) cartridge
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  8. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,315
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Caliber refers to the diameter of the bullet. .30 caliber is a bullet 0.30” in diameter. There are many different types of 30 caliber ammo. 30/30, 30/40, 30/06, 30 Carbine, 308 (those just jump immediately to mind).

    When referring to civilian ammo, they are listed like that so you can tell which one you mean. The military, however, usually only has one of each caliber of ammo in use at a time, so they just call it 30 caliber, or 45 caliber, or 9mm, because, since there is no other one it could be, there is no confusion.

    Your 1903 rifles are chambered in what the military referred to as “30 caliber”, but what the civilian world calls 30/06. If you have ammo for these guns, and it is in military packing, it will just be marked 30 caliber, while if it is in civilian packaging, it will say 30/06.

    As moody said, woolley read “30 caliber”, and his brain saw “30 caliber carbine”. This kind of brainfade happens to us all. That’s why he was saying 30/06 was bigger. As you can see from moody’s picture, it is much bigger than 30 carbine.

    I don’t know what type of clip you are referring to that you have.

    This one is for the M1 Garand. Can not be made to work with your gun.
    [​IMG]

    This is a 1903 being loaded with a stripper clip, and it works great with your rifle. It is what it was designed for.
    [​IMG]

    If this is the kind of clip you are talking about, it can’t be made to work, either.
    [​IMG]
  9. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    4,953
    Location:
    SW Fort Worth
    Not so much brainfade, ( although I am quite prone to it :D) just a "cover my brass" due to the fact that None of the rifles have been identified yet, although the majority of them probably are 03's. He may very well have some 30 carbines if there are any M1's in the lot. Anxious to see the pics, it sounds like a nice hand-me-down!! :cool::cool:

    Pics were a great touch too Alpo!
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009
  10. da357mag

    da357mag New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    238
    Nice info guys, about the difference between .30 carbine and .30 cal military ammo,
    like you said we were all at the beginning at one time, and sometimes we take for
    granted what we have learned over the years,(at least in my case!) and get to share
    to someone "new" how to go about our sport safely.
  11. oldfield

    oldfield New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Thanks for all the info guys. Looks as if the majority of my arms are 1903's. And I do NOT have any of the carbine ammo, but some labeled as the military designation 30 cal, and some the civ. 30-06. (I think I'm getting this) Nice to know I'm safe either way.

    As for my one clip, it's the M-1 type, but it's nice to know about those stripper clips. ARE THOSE REUSABLE?

    Then, if the .3 (30) is the diameter of the bullet, is the -06 the length, or does that have to do w/the brass?

    I've been told that any that are modified will be of lesser value, and I'm sure there are the rare models that fetch higher, but what might be an average price range of one of these in good condition? I'm not looking to necessarily sell, but there are other arms out there that I desire that I might want to trade some of the less than fine examples for.

    There are also some Mausers in the collection, is one universally preferred over another, or is that more a Ford vs. Chevy type of argument.

    And finally, lots of different sights...advice on those?

    (Sorry if I'm hogging up space on the wrong sub-forum, feel free to answer selectively on my bulk of questions or direct me to the more appropriate area)

    Thanks
  12. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,315
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Absolutely reusable. You can't tell from that picture, but look at the top of the receiver.
    [​IMG]

    See, at the back of the bolt, about an inch in front of the bolt handle, the notch on either side of the bolt? You pull the bolt back, and set the stripper clip down in that notch, as far as it will go. That holds it securely. You then press down on the top cartridge, and all five of them on the clip slide down into the magazine slick as you please. Pull the clip out and shut the bolt. You are loaded and ready to go.

    The "06" tells which 30 caliber cartridge. The rifle is a 1903 Springfield. Called on 03, or ought three. They invented a new cartridge for this new rifle. 30/03 - thirty caliber of ought three. Couple of years later they modified the cartridge. Gun is still the ought three, but the new modified cartridge was the thirty of ought six. Modification made in 1906. So, thirty of ought six is 30/06. Cartridge is usually called either 30/06 or 30/06 Springfield, and occasionally 30/06 Government.

    Most European cartridges use a two-part designation, and the second one is the length. 8x57, for instance. This was the German military cartridge during WW2. 8mm diameter bullet in a 57mm long cartridge case.

    Many American cartridges made during the black powder era had two-part or three-part designations. 45/70, for example, was a 45 caliber bullet loaded on top of 70 grains of black powder. 45/70/500 was a 45 bullet over 70 grains of powder, and the bullet weighed 500 grains.

    Cartridge nomenclature is confusing as hell. There is very little rhyme or reason behind it. You just learn it as you go along. Don't worry about looking foolish for asking "whadahell does that mean". We were all there, once.
  13. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,315
    Location:
    NW Florida
    I was looking at Aim Surplus's website, this morning. They have a bunch of ought threes. They have them priced at 800 each. Don't know if they will get that, but that's what they're asking.
  14. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Indiana
    Yes.

    Short answer:
    No.

    Long Answer:
    The "06" in the .30-06 (pronounced "thirty aught six") defines the year that the US Army adopted that cartridge for use (1906).
    There isn't a real system for naming cartridges. Basically, whoever invents/develops a new cartridge gets to name it whatever he or she chooses, and the name doesn't even have to be an accurate description of the cartridge. For instance, the .38 Special doesn't really have a bullet diameter of .38 inches (it's more like .357 or .358), but the diameter of the case is about .379 inches. However, the "70" in the .45-70 is the weight of the powder charge in grains (there are 7000 grains per pound).
    In other words, the only way to know what the name of a cartridge means is to learn about that specific cartridge.
  15. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Indiana
    Alpo types quicker than I do.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Cleaning media questions from a newbie Mar 24, 2014
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Newbie with priming questions, etc... Sep 26, 2011
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Newbie with a couple of questions Jan 17, 2011
The Ammo & Reloading Forum 7mm-08 Elk Hunting. Need help with reloading! Newbie Jul 15, 2014
The Ammo & Reloading Forum 7mm-08 Newbie Jun 30, 2014

Share This Page