No hiding place from new U.S. Army rifles that use radio-controlled smart bullets

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by RunningOnMT, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    Akron, Ohio

    By Daily Mail Reporter
    Last updated at 4:09 PM on 30th November 2010

    Comments (281) Add to My Stories
    Weapon hailed as a game-changer that can fire up and over barriers and down into trenches
    Soldiers will start using them in Afghanistan later this month


    The U.S. army is to begin using a futuristic rifle that fires radio-controlled 'smart' bullets in Afghanistan for the first time, it has emerged.
    The XM25 rifle uses bullets that are programmed to explode when they have travelled a set distance, allowing enemies to be targeted no matter where they are hiding.
    The rifle also has a range of 2,300 feet making it possible to hit targets which are well out of the reach of conventional rifles.
    The XM25 is being developed specially for the U.S. army and will be deployed with troops from later this month, it was revealed today.

    The XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System has a range of roughly 2,300 feet - and is to be deployed in Afghanistan this month
    The rifle's gunsight uses a laser rangefinder to determine the exact distance to the obstruction, after which the soldier can add or subtract up to 3 metres from that distance to enable the bullets to clear the barrier and explode above or beside the target.
    Soldiers will be able to use them to target snipers hidden in trenches rather than calling in air strikes.
    The 25-millimetre round contains a chip that receives a radio signal from the gunsight as to the precise distance to the target.
    Lt. Col. Christopher Lehner, project manager for the system, described the weapon as a ‘game-changer’ that other nations will try and copy.
    He expects the Army to buy 12,500 of the XM25 rifles this year, enough for every member of the infantry and special forces.
    Lehner told FoxNews: ‘With this weapon system, we take away cover from [enemy targets] forever.
    ‘Tactics are going to have to be rewritten. The only thing we can see [enemies] being able to do is run away.’


    Experts say the rifle means that enemy troops will no longer be safe if they take cover
    The XM25 appears the perfect weapon for street-to-street fighting that troops in Afghanistan have to engage in, with enemy fighters hiding behind walls and only breaking cover to fire occasionally.
    The weapon's laser finder would work out how far away the enemy was and then the U.S. soldier would add one metre using a button near the trigger. When fired, the explosive round would carry exactly one metre past the wall and explode with the force of a hand grenade above the Taliban fighter.
    The army's project manager for new weapons, Douglas Tamilio, said: ''This is the first leap-ahead technology for troops that we've been able to develop and deploy.'
    A patent granted to the bullet's maker, Alliant Techsystems, reveals that the chip can calculate how far it has travelled.
    Mr Tamilio said: 'You could shoot a Javelin missile, and it would cost £43,000. These rounds will end up costing £15.50 apiece. They're relatively cheap.
    Lehner added: ‘This is a game-changer. The enemy has learned to get cover, for hundreds if not thousands of years.
    ‘Well, they can't do that anymore. We're taking that cover from them and there's only two outcomes: We're going to get you behind that cover or force you to flee.’
    The rifle will initially use high-explosive rounds, but its makers say that it might later use versions with smaller explosive charges that aim to stun rather than kill.
    One of the revolutionary bullets which can be pre-programmed to explode to hit troops that are hiding


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  2. Oh dear God, let this be a joke.

    How about some range time and marksmanship training instead? How about we don't go to war unless there is a declared war and we go in to win with everything we have available for the fight?

    Forget Gizmos and Gee Whizz tech until it is proven technology and small enough you don't need 3 men and a wheel barrow to haul it around.

    Yeah, okay, I am a dinosaur, so sue me.

  3. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    Akron, Ohio
    Generally I'm for anything that makes it easier to kill the enemy, however I have to say I tend to agree with you old Grump...I have very little patience anymore for running around all over the world, breaking the bank, and wasting American lives on war which in the end doesn't significantly change the balance of power one iota.

    When we first invaded Iraq I thought it was the right thing to do; after all Saddam was a tyrant that threatened world peace and he had to go. My brother argued with me that unless we were under immediate threat that we should stay home and mind our own business. That when we were threatened or Americans harmed we should unleash hellfire on those responsible and not stop until they were annihilated.

    Now after all these years the muslims are still in charge and to the extent that Islam is still at war with us, not much has really changed in the grand scheme of things. I think my brother was right; had we not gone into Iraq and Afghanistan we'd still have a lot of good men with us and our economy would be much better off. The muslims are still there, and they still don't like us. So the potential threat is still there. We could have made ourselves less vulnerable to terrorist attack by simply exercising our right to refuse entry into the country of ANY muslim, and been way ahead of the game.

    And I suppose maybe we both have a tiny bit of nostalgia for the old ways. Some level of technology is fine. I mean I'd hate to go to war with a musket but then again machinery that makes it so much easier to kill without skill and courage leads to hollow victory. And in the endless weapons race mankind has been in since the stone age, the technology you are using on your enemy today will kill you tomorrow.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  4. Millwright

    Millwright Well-Known Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Well, Its not nearly so much of a "game changer" as advertised......What all the "gee whiz" does is program the fuse on a grenade prior to shooting it. IOW all the nifty stuff is in the grenade, not the launcher ! Bound to happen, given the pace of minaturization and the development of more stable, higher velocity explosives.

    IMO,great to have one in the squad, but perhaps not so "great" for the carrier. Remember someone's got to pack ammo for the thing......And it won't take long for the wogs to target him first, either ! >MW
  5. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Uh, no offense, and I know we've cut the military THROUGH the bone to score some of that "Peace Dividend...":cool: But we still have a helluva lot more infantry than that.

    It's just a "smarter" but smaller grenade launcher. The Russians have been using 25 mm grenade launchers for years, so the only thing new is the microchip.

    It's a new support weapon period. And I'm not sure a good M79 or 203 gunner with a proximity fuse couldn't do a lot this one is claimed to do.

    Methinks the Daily Mail got caught up in the manufacturers sales propaganda.;)

    Most grunts will still be carrying the long in the tooth M16/M4 which BY THE WAY no matter how much I like them could stand replacement or an upgrade.
  6. polishshooter

    polishshooter Well-Known Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    And besides that it looks like Tupperware...kinda like a Glock:cool::D
  7. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010

    Peace through superior training, tactics and deployment of fire power

    Australia has never had the overwealming firepower the US had although having seen our F111's operate a few times , i wish they where still in service..

    but this initiated in the firestorm project and advanced to the f88 project
    the ammo for which , is the basis for this system

    it has its use, 1-2 per 10 man squad i can see , its like a programmable blooper round , with double the range , i've not used one in combat , but on the range , yes and i'm impressed, id love to frag trenches with these things

    but to replace every AR and SAW in a platoon with these ??


    heres the aussie verson still in trial from 2006

    this uses the metal storm version of the ammo and holds 3 rounds of the 40 mm version

    now a US guy who has fired both the Australian metalstorm and the new US system says the US smaller call version is even better for a point target detonation ( fragging) , he's a smart troop so i wont doubt his word on the weapon, but its deployment ??

    yeeeeesh :p

    but i think every squad should have a long riflle too ..

    i'm a dinosaur in my own way ,

    but at least ours still has a rifle as the base weapon is my thinking ,

    we'll have 1-2 per squad by the end of the year and 2-3 M-203 style attachment per squad as well

    the smart round technology is great has a real use , but has its limits

    a 5.56 through the bean is a way better solution in every respect

    ( i prefer 7.62 ) meeeeehhhh everyone is different ;)

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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  8. NO! NO! NO!

    --If anyone wants to know why,ask me--

    Until then.... NO NO NO!!!
  9. Millwright

    Millwright Well-Known Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Do the Australians, (or rather their government wogs), still plan on engaging in "trench warfare" ? :)

    I agree with your opinion of this device's uselfullness, BTW. IMPIO its always better to have alternatives....In combat, love or cards ! >MW
  10. Millwright

    Millwright Well-Known Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    BTW, from your post it seem that "metal storm" thing is still hanging on........One wonders if its "hardened" to the EMP from nearby explosions, focused RF, or even a local lightening strike........

    Invulnerability, durability, and reliability are - or ought to be - the keystones of military and police weapon systems. Lots of folks -and some serious corporate entities - have tried to "personalize" handguns to protect police - or serve more nefarious political ends - but have yet to succeed.......>MW
  11. ofitg

    ofitg Active Member

    Feb 25, 2010

    OK, I must be behind the times..... is there a proximity-fuzed round for the M79/203?
  12. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    yep, just need the setting gadget added to a standard unit
  13. ofitg

    ofitg Active Member

    Feb 25, 2010
    Thanks Jack! I guess I'd better study up on that - a prox-fuzed round for the 40mm grenade launcher sounds impressive.

    Prox fuzes are old technogy - fairly simple, compared to the new digital stuff - and probably a lot cheaper too.
  14. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    these where started by metal storm for a 30mm defensive perimeter gun ( border crossing) and took off but the ammo was put out to a US firm and they ran with it some more , the rounds are now accurate within a yard or so range wise , the connector and unit is digital but the old timer circuits are in the base of the round.. ours has a laser range fiter range setter , dunno about the US one , the US one is not 40mm either, and i doubt it would be the recycled bofors prox fuses used here when we where doing this in 2004 ;) aussie development and US development are a tad different ..
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  15. ofitg

    ofitg Active Member

    Feb 25, 2010
    I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing.... I was thinking of the proximity fuzes which transmit a radio signal out ahead of the projectile, and then detonate the projectile when the target gets close enough to reflect that radio signal back to the fuze...
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