Not a good day!

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by gdmoody, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Today was was one to forget. First thing I did this morning was over sleep. I wanted to leave for the range about 8:00 as it takes about 30 minutes to get there. When I woke up I looked at my little battery operated alarm clock and it showed it was 7:02 so I thought I was lay for another minute. The phone rang a few minutes later and I looked at the clock again, it showed 7:15 so I wondered who was calling so early. It was for my wife and she had already left the house so I looked at the electric clock radio and it showed 9:23. Yep, thats right, the battery in the small clock was dying a slow death.

    I got ready in a few minutes and made it to the range at about 10:00 which was still OK with me. There was no one on the pistol range and only one person on the rifle range. I decided to shoot the rifles first. Took out my new Weatherby Vanguard .223 with the new Sweet .223 scope on it. It only took me seven shots to get it zeroed. The high point of my day was the three shot group that is shown below. I was going after a fourth shot when the failure to extract happened. I could not get that case to extract and I didn't have my rod with me because I was in a hurry to leave the house and forget it.:mad: I put that rifle away.

    Then I get to the .308s!!

    I took three of them with me, the Remington 700, the M1A, and the L1A1. I was having problems with my .308 reloads the last time I had gone to the range and I wanted to just shoot up some 308 so I could reload a bunch, I started out with the Remington and was hand feeding so I could feel the cartridge go into the chamber. I got through 9 shots just fine and on number 10 the bolt closed a little hard and after firing, the bolt was frozen and would not pull back. It would come up and cock put just would not pull back! And guess what, I did not have my rod with me because I was in a hurry to leave the house and forgot it!:mad::mad: I put that rifle away.

    I take out the M1A and big dummy put the first cartridge in the bolt and let it slam home. Except it would seat properly and would not extract. And guess what, I didn't have my rod (or tool box) with me because I was in a hurry to leave the house and forgot them!:mad::mad::mad: I put that rifle away. Right then, I decided to leave the L1A1 in the case, in the car so I wouldn't need a rod for it. :D I put all the rifles in the car and walked on over to the pistol range.

    I guess I am going to have to pull the bullet on every .308 cartridge that I have and start over with the new Small Base Resizing Die. I think it is a little drastic but may be the only way to fix my 308 ammo problem!!

    I put about three hundred rounds of .22 through the little Chiappa 1911-22 and had a lot of fun doing it. I was so irritated at the rifle fiasco that I wasn't shooting for accuracy, just shooting. The Chiappa is shooting about 3 inches low at a measured 15 yards. I don't quite understand this but it was shooting dead on at 50 yards. I love to shoot at the metal "gong" at the 50 yard line and I hit it several times (probably 30% of the time).

    I put 50 rounds through my new (to me) CZ-82. It shoots really good at 15 yards and I did hit the 50 yard gong a few times. I had bought some 200 grain hollow points for my Citadel 1911 that I carry so I wanted to try them out. I only fired about 20 rounds and the Citadel does a really good job at 15 yards. I missed the two rounds I fired at the 50 yard gong.

    The last thing I fired was my Thompson Contender with the custom 5.7X28 barrel and BSA Red Dot scope. I fired 50 rounds through it and it got pretty boring hitting bullseye every time at 15 yards. I put some pine cones out on the 50 yard line and alternated shooting them and the gong, what a blast.

    I apologize for the long post but just had to get it off my chest!! I was't quite sure where to post this, it could just as easily go in the Reloading Forum or the Off Topic Forum
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  2. zfk55

    zfk55 New Member

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    Bolts won't open and you forgot your rod? What does a rod do?
    In general, anyone reading this, what is your method for extracting a cartridge from a bolt that's stuck for any reason?
    If there's a Marine here he can tell you, but I'd like to wait and see some answers first.
    As for the .223, it took 7 rounds to zero it? Please explain your method of zeroing.
    Those kinds of days really do suck gdmoody, but there are a couple of things you could have done to possibly have changed that. This should be a good thread. :D
  3. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    I zero a rifle by putting a cartridge in the chamber, pulling the trigger, studying the bullet hole, and determining which way to move the scope. Is there another way that I don't know about?

    I used a rod to open the bolt on the both of the bolt actions when I got home. Insert rod in the muzzle and strike the other end of the rod with a piece of 1x1 wood about a foot long. I also used that same piece of wood to open the bolt of the M1A by placing it on the bolt handle and striking it with a short piece of 2x4 - bolts open.

    I am sorry you don't like my methods, but neither you or a Marine were at the range to help me. If it happens again, I will use the same method unless you have a preferred method that you would like to tell me about.
  4. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    That's the route I take...they do make the bore sight but I like the "take it on shot at a time" method myself. Some may call it old fasioned but I call it thats the way Ive always done it and that's what works! That's just my two cents worth.
  5. Lee C.

    Lee C. New Member

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    Here is some thing you might want to try when sighting in a scope. It should take no more than 3 shots to do it.

    First have a good rest so you can keep the gun right on the same point on the target. Shot one round, then make sure the scope is stell at the same spot you shot at. Then move the cross hairs to the bullet hole you just shot with out moveing the gun. Then take a shot and it should be right on. My last shot is to make sure the gun didn't move when i was moveing the cross hairs.

    Two rounds and the scope should be right on. But i always shot one more to check my work to be sure i did it right. After you do it a few times it is really is easy to do.
  6. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Lee C., Wouldnt that take a gun vice? Thats what I always thought and been wanting to get one for ages, just never have. Ive tried that method and have tried shooting and having someone else move my cross hairs for me while I hold the gun. I had my brother in law do that with me on an sks and it worked out pretty well.
    Thinking it took about 4 shots to get it right real close til I could fine tune it myself.
  7. Lee C.

    Lee C. New Member

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    zane7164, I guess it's pretty easy for me to say how to do this. But i have been doing it this way for alot of years now. It dosen't take a gun vice, just take your time. Youl get to a point you won't even have to think about it. It's just like any thing easl the more you do it the better you get at it.

    I should say i have a good frount rest and a good bage for the gun to set on and i even put babby powder on both. So when i shot a round the gun will just slide back a little and i just have to push back up some and it is right back on target agine. I think it cost a little over $100.00 for both the best money i've spent yet on shooting. Not even close to the best out there but it has worked out good for me in the end. To me any time your trying to shot a good group and the gun is jumping around your just wasting bullets and time. But i guess we all have to learn what works best for the way we each shoot right. Have fun with it, Lee
  8. Zane71464

    Zane71464 Well-Known Member

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    Well I'll have to say, thats interesting and good info/advice!
    And you are right about "It's just like any thing easl the more you do it the better you get at it."
    Ive seen people shoot all day just trying to get a scope zeroed in and some people dont take to advice that well...lol
    On a good shooting bench and a good rest and a good scope (also an accurate rifle) usually a few clicks and your there.
  9. The_Rifleman

    The_Rifleman New Member

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    Nice group, good shooting!

    Too bad you had so many problems, but at least you got some trigger time in.
  10. zfk55

    zfk55 New Member

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    Whoa, gd. I wasn't meaning to slam you. My apologies.
    As for zeroing, Lee is dead on. Three rounds is about it for me too, and it doesn't take a vice at all, just a good sandbag setup.
    I'm still not getting the rod thing. If you have a cartridge in battery and the bolt won't open you can't be putting that rod down the barrel against the chambered cartridge, are you? With an M1 or any rifle, striking the bolt handle is a good way to damage the handle if you hit it hard enough. You need to apply strong inertia to the entire bolt, not just the handle.

    Take the rifle in your left hand, holding it by the mid-foregrip. Place the edge your right hand (like a karate chop) against the bolt handle or you can grip it firmly with your fingers (not quite as effective with that type of bolt), or you can use a small block of wood in your hand to put downward pressure on the bolthandle. Raise the rifle about 18" off the ground and bring it down quickly, rapping the buttstock sharply against the ground while putting hard downpressure against the bolt with your right hand. Do it more than once if you need to, but I can tell you that its worked very time for me for as long as I've been reloading no matter what the rifle. If its a bolt action, rotate the bolt handle up and do the procedure. The AR10 is done the same way but just grip the bolt handle like you're extracting a cartridge and pull down hard while striking the butt on the ground.
    Don't do this on concrete for obvious reasons.
    Sorry if I came across badly, but try this method. If it doesn't ultimately work then there's more of a problem than a rod or a block of wood would handle anyway.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  11. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    I too have watched shootesr at the range spend boxes of ammo just trying to zero their rifle. The big mistake was they trusted that the gun shop, who collimated the scope with a tool in the barrel and looking through the scope into the tool. Then they started the zero process at 100 yards.

    There are many ways to start the zeroing process at home before going to the range. Bolt guns are easy. Remove the bolt. Set up a target about 50 feet away. I used to tape a target to a box and walk it across the street directly in front of my garage. Then I opened the garage door and set up a bench and bags in the far end of the garage where it is dark so neighbors didn't freak out as they could not see me. Today I can do it in my house as there is a long hall and a clear view across three rooms to an outside wall (about 50 feet). Anyway you look down the barrel and center the target. Then move the cross hairs onto the center of the target. That will get you on the paper at 50 yds with most guns.

    For semi-auto or lever guns or pump guns I have a small prism that I place in the chamber area, positioned so I can look into it and see down the barrel and see the target. These bore sighting methods require a rifle or pistol vice and a relatively stable table.

    But the latest thing for me is one of the laser bore sighting tools. It is a laser with a set of devices that allow it to fit snugly into any bore size barrel muzzle including shotguns. You look through the scope or sights and adjust the sights or scope until they match the red dot (or green dot which actually can be seen outdoors, so they say on the box). You don't need a target but just a flat surface about 50 feet away. No table, no vice, no bags are needed you just shoulder or point the gun, try an adjustment and shoulder or point the gun again (trial and error). There are several of these devices available but I like the LaserLyte kit. The ones that look like a cartridge are dumb because you need one for every caliber gun you have. The muzzle type are universally for any caliber. They also get you on the paper at 50 yds.

    You can then use the "three shot" zeroing process described above at the range. For really fine adjustments remember most scopes adjust at 1/4 inch per click (some 1/2 inch but it should be in their manual or engraved on the knobs somewhere) at 100 yds. It takes twice as many clicks for the same adjustment at 50 yds.

    LDBennett
  12. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    zfk - there was only one with a live cartridge in it and that was the M1A. I don't know why I said anything about the rod on that one because I would never put a rod against a live one. I did the hand thing, without dropping the rifle. and it wouldn't budge. I did it pretty much that way at home except I used a short peice of 2x4 to strike the wood laying on the bolt.
  13. zfk55

    zfk55 New Member

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    Yeah, dropping the rifle on the butt while applying downward pressure on the bolt handle is what throws all of the rearward inertia to the bolt. That's what will eject the cartridge, and I knew you weren't going to put a rod down the barrel with a crtridge in batttery. Old Army dudes don't do that. :D
  14. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    George, shame on you! You are not allowed to make mistakes! Man, what a rookie. You need a big hammer next time. And when you have problems like that you just beat the daylights out of your rifles and throw them down range at the target. Maybe the mower man will run them over later. Do I have to teach you everything? Gee wiz.
  15. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Thanks Dan, I needed that. I will bring them all down to you and let you do the dirty work!

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