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not happy with lead bullets right now

3K views 33 replies 14 participants last post by  carver 
#1 ·
I bought a paint can full of 38 wad cutters a couple of years back and am just getting around to loading them. I have been running through a big stash of jacketed hollow points that I ran out of so I loaded up the wad cutters. They look fairly dark in color, not back but very dark grey, they guy I got them from said they were graphite coated or impregnated (don't know how they would make those) but that's what he said and that I can load them up. These are a bevel base wad cutter and there is a cannelure but no lube rings. They look factory made and not garage made to me.

They are 148 gr and I loaded them with Unique for a low to mid range charge.

Some of you know I just bought a new S&W 686 last week and I ran several 357 JHPs in it and then I put about 100-150 of these 38 wad cutters through it.

At this point in the story, some of you know where this is going......
I was in the shop tonight and took the Smith out to look it over and run a patch through it and the bore is leaded up...

I got 60 percent of it out with Hoppes /Kroil and a brush but it looks like I'm headed out in the morning to buy some chore boys to get the rest of it out.
I had no idea that the bore could lead up so bad with just that many rounds of lead bullets, now I'm stuck with a paint can full of these things and I don't want to load them and run them knowing they will lead up my guns.

I was counting on getting a few years of shooting out of those wad cutters.
Is there some reason for the leading or something I can do differently to prevent this?
 
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#2 ·
Did they have any lube on them at all, other than the graphite coating the guy called it? If not, that's a huge part of your problem. No lube = for sure leading.

Lead boolits are tricky. What may work in my gun, might not work in your exact same gun. I stay far away from cast boolits unless I make them for my guns.

If your interested in running cast, i'd heavly suggest slugging your barrel.
 
#3 ·
Did they have any lube on them at all, other than the graphite coating the guy called it? If not, that's a huge part of your problem. No lube = for sure leading.

Lead boolits are tricky. What may work in my gun, might not work in your exact same gun. I stay far away from cast boolits unless I make them for my guns.

If your interested in running cast, i'd heavly suggest slugging your barrel.
these look like factory bullets but they are all lead. I bet they are pretty old knowing the guy I got them from
 
#4 ·
DB, How fast are you running these bullets, and did you mick them to see what diaimeter they were?
 
#6 ·
They sound like they may be Precision coated (black) bullets. Is the coating a soft gray with lead showing through or a smooth black? They may be soft factory swaged bullets too. Pics would help. First and foremost, did you measure the diameter of the bullets? If the bullet is too small, it will lead the barrel for sure.

You need to know a bit more about your gun for shooting lead bullets than jacketed. You should know the cylinder throat diameter and the groove diameter of the barrel. Slug the barrel and the cylinder. Measure the slugs with a micrometer. Shoot bullets no smaller in diameter than the cylinder throats, and get a 3rd Edition Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook...
 
#7 ·
They sound like they may be Precision coated (black) bullets. Is the coating a soft gray with lead showing through or a smooth black? They may be soft factory swaged bullets too. Pics would help. First and foremost, did you measure the diameter of the bullets? If the bullet is too small, it will lead the barrel for sure.

You need to know a bit more about your gun for shooting lead bullets than jacketed. You should know the cylinder throat diameter and the groove diameter of the barrel. Slug the barrel and the cylinder. Measure the slugs with a micrometer. Shoot bullets no smaller in diameter than the cylinder throats, and get a 3rd Edition Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook...
Good advice.
 
#8 ·
some of us are tired of the leading so we are ditching the lube and instead powder coating the bullets... in process of doing this now, but it is fairly simple to 'shake n bake' with TGIC Powder Coat and bake in a toaster oven and say good bye to leading...

copper or brass wool and WD40 to scrub the lead out
 
#12 ·
some of us are tired of the leading so we are ditching the lube and instead powder coating the bullets... in process of doing this now, but it is fairly simple to 'shake n bake' with TGIC Powder Coat and bake in a toaster oven and say good bye to leading...

copper or brass wool and WD40 to scrub the lead out
powder coating you say? I need to look into this:)
 
#14 ·
There's a series of videos about powder-coating, on youtube.

Basically, the guy takes lubed store-bought bullets and heats 'em to 200 for a half hour, to melt the lube off. Let's 'em cool. Mixes some powder with paint thinner and sloshes the bullets in it for a while, let's 'em dry, then heats 'em to 400 for a half hour. Lets 'em cool, more powder with paint thinner, slosh 'em some more, cook 'em at 400 for a half hour, let 'em cool, coat 'em again, cook 'em at 400 for a half hour, let 'em cool, coat 'em again (that's four coats, right - I haven't gotten away from myself?), and cooks 'em ONE MORE TIME at 400 for a half hour.

I just wonder if the heating and cooling 'em five times is what makes 'em hard, and the powder coating is just wishful thinking.
 
#15 ·
Powder coating hardcast boolits works well. Lots of discussion about it over at castboolits.com. It's just more time consuming than what i'm willing to get into right now.
 
#16 ·
dbcooper:

Take a look at the Hodgdon reloading Center web page and you will see that 148 gr 38 wad cutter bullets (38 special) have velocities ranging from 600 to 1000 FPS. They are in tended for low velocity 38 Special target shooting. The lower the velocity the lower the possibility of leading up the bore.

I shoot similar bullets (hollow base wad cutters) in my S&W Model 52 Target semi-auto with zero leading but I use the S&W recommended velocity of less than 800FPS. The Hornady bullets I use have a dry lube on them and work fine with no leading at 780 FPS out of my Model 52 barrel. I think if you reduce you loads (per the manuals) you will eliminate the leading problem.

LDBennett
 
#17 ·
dbcooper:

Take a look at the Hodgdon reloading Center web page and you will see that 148 gr 38 wad cutter bullets (38 special) have velocities ranging from 600 to 1000 FPS. They are in tended for low velocity 38 Special target shooting. The lower the velocity the lower the possibility of leading up the bore.

I shoot similar bullets (hollow base wad cutters) in my S&W Model 52 Target semi-auto with zero leading but I use the S&W recommended velocity of less than 800FPS. The Hornady bullets I use have a dry lube on them and work fine with no leading at 780 FPS out of my Model 52 barrel. I think if you reduce you loads (per the manuals) you will eliminate the leading problem.

LDBennett
LD, that maybe the problem as I am new to shooting lead bullets.
The batch I ran were 4.5 gr of Unique and I need to get back in my shop and see what the chart says that FPS is for a 148 wad cutter.
 
#18 ·
dbcooper:

Take a look at the Hodgdon reloading Center web page and you will see that 148 gr 38 wad cutter bullets (38 special) have velocities ranging from 600 to 1000 FPS. They are in tended for low velocity 38 Special target shooting. The lower the velocity the lower the possibility of leading up the bore.

I shoot similar bullets (hollow base wad cutters) in my S&W Model 52 Target semi-auto with zero leading but I use the S&W recommended velocity of less than 800FPS. The Hornady bullets I use have a dry lube on them and work fine with no leading at 780 FPS out of my Model 52 barrel. I think if you reduce you loads (per the manuals) you will eliminate the leading problem.

LDBennett
That was my first thought. I shoot lead bullets mostly, and I don't have a problem with leading because I keep the bullet speed down below, or near, 1,000fps, depending on how hard my bullets are. The softer the lead, the slower the bullet.
 
#19 ·
carver:

There are dyed-in-the-wool casters that will argue with you. I am not one of them and keep all lead bullets (cast or swage) below 1000fps. Those casters claim lube makes a difference, fit of the bulelt to the barrel and a some other things as well. It may well be true but since I buy my cast or swaged bullets I can not control any of it so I just keep the velocity well below 1000 FPS. Or I buy copper plated bullets and still keep them closer to 1000 FPS. I find it no fun to have to dig lead out of a pristine barrel with a pick which I have had to do on more than one occasion with hotter loads.

Since my Model 52 is a semi-auto shooting a full wad cutter getting the velocity correct is important for reliable operation. I found Model 52 specific loads and that's what I use.

LDBennett
 
#20 ·
Well, they can just argue wiht me, and you too. If I decide I want a load for my Marlin lever gun in .44 mag that would be good for hunting deer, say around 1500fps, then I will buy the Lee Hardness Tester; http://www.realguns.com/archives/118.htm Any one who thinks they can judge the hardnes of lead by biting the bullet, has another thought coming. Elmer Keith shot his own design, the Keith semi wadcutter, at full bore .44 mag loads, with out much leading. And the Brinell hardness number was around 12 for his bullets. Lead that is too hard will lead a barrel just as fast as a bullet that is too soft.
 

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#21 ·
The old timer that taught me to cast said keeping handgun loads at 1000 fps or under and you'll be good to go. That's what I do and have never scraped lead from a barrel using straight wheel weights. Rifle on the other hand, that's a whole nother animal.

Cast boolits are a science all in itself. They can be fun and aggravating at the same time.
 
#23 ·
every single time I think about getting into casting my own projectiles. a thread like this comes up and I shout out 'oh bother' and forget about it for another 2 months.. till i start thinking about it again.. :)
Don't let this stuff scare you off! If I can do it, it's not that hard! The problem right now is finding the things you need like bullet molds, and handles. Jump in, and go for it!
 
#24 ·
my problem is if i cast.. then I'll have to gas check too. for every pistol round I shoot. I shoot 20 rifle rounds... thus 95% of my relaoding is rifle and velocity above 1000fps.

for gas checking i'll have to get a whole 'nother set of gear.. at some point it will just be easier to buy projectiles. :)

especially since free lead is all but gone now a days.. if free lead was still around. it might make sense..
 
#25 ·
Soundguy, casting for rifle, from everything i've heard is very tiresome. Gas checks, specific alloys, ect. It can be done with great success, many folks do it but it's apples and oranges compared to casting for pistols.

Like reloading, it's a hobby all to itself. If I shot more rifles than pistols I wouldn't mess with casting but i'm oposite of you. For every 50 pistol rounds I fire I might fire one rifle round.

Even though you don't shoot as much pistol rounds as rifle i'd still encourage anyone to give it a go. It can be done on the cheap, that's how I do it. All together with my moulds (LEE $20.00 a pop), Pot (LEE 10# production pot used $30.00), old cast iron pot to melt alloy to ingots and a cheap old muffin tin. I might have 100 bucks into my set up.

Currently all i'm casting for is .45 ACP but I can make darned good projectiles for around .02 a round. Best thing about it is my steel plates don't care what their hit with.
 
#26 ·
my problem is if i cast.. then I'll have to gas check too. for every pistol round I shoot. I shoot 20 rifle rounds... thus 95% of my relaoding is rifle and velocity above 1000fps.

for gas checking i'll have to get a whole 'nother set of gear.. at some point it will just be easier to buy projectiles. :)

especially since free lead is all but gone now a days.. if free lead was still around. it might make sense..
A little article you should read;
"Believe it or not, some cast bullet shooters get 3000 fps with bullets that are 25 BHN or harder and preferably gas-checked. The subject of high performance cast bullet loads is really beyond the scope of this article - it is a specialized segment for the cast bullet purist. I suspect most readers will no doubt turn to shooting jacketed bullets when they want high velocity."

http://www.theoutdoorwriter.com/shooting/cast_bullets.htm
 
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