Now, this is some fine police work

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by Double D, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. Sig Willy

    Sig Willy Well-Known Member

    Jul 10, 2012
    We have a law here that if you failed to ID yourself you're going to jail for no ID. Y'all probably have similar laws in your states so seriously guys, what do you expect the cop to do?

    I agree that he's rough on the old lady but she tested his patience.
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    She was only speeding. And refusing to provide any ID, so as far as the cop could tell she was driving a stolen car (no registration) with no drivers license or insurance.

    Yeah, he shoulda let her go.

  3. FlashBang

    FlashBang Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    In Texas all officers are PEACE OFFICERS, That is what you are certified as and what your license says on it. As a former Peace Officer in Texas, I agree that this guy handled the situation all wrong. He over reacted and illegally arrested her and should be at the very least suspended without pay, and if the woman presses the issue with an Attorney; she should sue him for violation of her civil rights, unlawful arrest and press charges against him for assault. Any Attorney with half a brain could win the suit.

    To clear up some misconceptions for my fellow Texans on here: in the State of Texas there are two (2) offenses that you can NOT be arrested for. The first one is Open Container and the second one is Speeding. They are Class C misdemeanor offenses and you can only be issued a citation, not arrested. I see Texans in here saying that in Texas you can be arrested for not showing your ID. This is 100% wrong. The charge is known as "Failure to identify" and only pertains to your refusal to identify yourself AFTER you have been arrested or if you are a witness to a crime. The Statute is very clear on this but people, and some LEO's, have convinced themselves and others that you can be arrested. The Statute that covers this is 38.02, look it up yourself.

    In this instance, the only charge the Officer had was a speeding charge, which is a non-arrestable offense, and since the woman was not under arrest or a witness to a crime, she had no duty or obligation to identify herself to him.

    Did she deserve to get ticketed? Heck yes... And if I had stopped her and she pulled that crap, I would have ticketed her for more then just speeding.... All while saying yes mam no mam and smiling. And if she then refused to sign the citation, I would have taken her into custody and brought her before a magistrate as the law states shall be done for refusal to sign.

    This guy screwed up by not staying calm and in control, of both himself and the situation.
    She screwed up by thinking she was going to be in control and argue on the side of the road. Trust me, you will never win like that. Let them do what they are going to do, cooperate fully, and then get yourself an Attorney after it is all done.

    With all this said.. I see a pattern by some people on this site to continually try to denigrate LEO's and post everything they can about the ones who screw up, then try to lump every LEO into the same bad apple grouping. To those doing this, and you know who you are, you are doing exactly what the anti-gun crowd does and should be ashamed of yourself. There may be bad LEO's out there, but for every bad one there are thousands like me, and others, that were/are professional and do the job with pride and honor. I am frankly getting sick of the constant "cop bashing" I continually see from some on here. It is no better then a liberal anti-gun person posting everything negative they can dig up while ignoring the overwhelming good things out there.

    I've said my piece and my opinion, now let's hold ourselves to the same standard we want to hold others to, or we are no better then that which we despise.
  4. aa1911

    aa1911 Well-Known Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    Pacific Northwest
    :yeahthat: ^^ well said!
  5. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
    SW Fort Worth
    I think they were both in the wrong. I do think the cop owes her an apology for not taking longer than 20 seconds to try to reason with her and hear her out. His training or lack thereof hasn't paid off; I can't imagine how many people would be in jail if cops only gave you 20 seconds worth of level-headed thinking and that was it before they drag you out and slap cuffs on you.

    The lady was just trying to explain her situation and was cut-off by the officers request ( which was a reasonable request ) she was just like most women though; they really really don't like to be cut-off and she just wanted to finish the last few statements on her condition. Was waiting another 10 seconds really going to endanger or threaten this officer? I think not. His ego and desire to show his authority overtook sensible judgement.

    Should she win a lawsuit if it comes to that? No, she flat out broke several laws regardless and the cop certainly didn't beat her down or cause grave harm to her.
    At this point, all the lady/her family are seeking is an apology. I know how these matters can change, I'm sure that lawyers have already contacted them and the potential $$$ can lead to even more insanity.
  6. Sig Willy

    Sig Willy Well-Known Member

    Jul 10, 2012
    I think if she gave the officer her DL he would've been more compliant to her request. He had to have her ID before anything else.

    I don't know if my case was relevant but I was stopped for speeding and the cop found a warrant on me. I complied with his request for my DL and since I've been cool with him when I told him I'm driving my brother's truck and please don't impound the truck he allowed me to drive to the service station and call my brother to pick up his truck because I'm going to jail. As he took me to jail I thanked him.
  7. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    Worm, how do you know he only took 20 seconds? That might be how long it was in the news clip, but since the clip kept flipping back and forth between the cop-car dash cam and the cop's uniform-cam, the two videos had obviously been edited to fit the time and show what the news wanted. For all you know he was arguing with her for five minutes.
  8. leo66

    leo66 New Member

    Aug 25, 2011
    Lived just outside of Keene in Alvarado.Keene police are noyhing but thugs.
  9. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 16, 2009
    North Florida
    I have friends that are cops and have always held them in high regard and had respect for thier job...that is until just of late....almost every day a new video surfaces with a cop abusing his authority and arresting people either with force or against the persons rights or making up laws as they go and not understanding the constitution. The more i see of this the more i lose faith. So i am a person who never once thought i would be going against cops or saying anything bad about them. But this is a growing problem that is getting worse not better and i will shut up when they start getting it right. Sorry if you dont like that.
  10. flashman2002

    flashman2002 Member

    Aug 19, 2012
    Ill post what is said in the Texas penal code:

    Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.

    (b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

    (1) lawfully arrested the person;

    (2) lawfully detained the person; or

    (3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

    (c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:

    (1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

    (2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

    (d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:

    (1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

    (2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

    (e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07.

    She shouldn't have been arrested based on the penal code. Should the cop have used the force he did? No. But anymore, you do not know who is behind the wheel when a cop pulls a person over. Yes, people will say that is a lame excuse for any cop, but how many have been shot at during routine stops! This lady is certainly dumb for acting the way she did. She was illegally speeding. What would you all be saying if the story was "77 yr old involved in death of two people"? Her actions before and during the time of her getting pulled over and subsequently arrested, are her own fault. We as citizens control the situation, not cops. Once we act out, it is all over. Stay calm and do as requested, it will go much farther in court if something like this occurs.
  11. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
    SW Fort Worth
    Keene and Cleburne are neighboring towns, so depending on where I'm working, I pass through Keene quite often and I always keep it at or just below the speed limit. While I'm not certain they're thugs, the word is out if you ask any of the locals that you're not going to get cut any slack whatsoever in Keene. They'll try to nail you if you so much as sneeze in the wrong direction; that's the impression that folks give about the KPD. They haven't got that reputation just by chance.
  12. Millwright

    Millwright Well-Known Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Just how much time would you care to spend on the side of the road ? Traffic stops are stressful for patrol cops ! Had the lady been less self-centered and more co-operative she stood a good chance of "walking" on this stop !

    FWIW, I've long practiced the policy of immediately acknowledging a "pull over" by turning on my 4-ways and proceeding to an area with good shoulder space and sight lines. When I stop all windows are down and the keys are on the dash in plain sight with both hands on the wheel. A smiling courteous greeting may also disarm someone with an attitude. Certainly "situational awareness" and reading the body/voice language of the officer is to your advantage. If he/she's young/scared do your damnest to alleviate any stress by keeping movements slow and explain what you're doing. Above all keep the exchange conversational, not confrontational. You're not going to "win your case" roadside - but you can lose it !

    Think my advice BS ? With nearly fifty year's experience professional traveler and driver I can't count the number of minor traffic offense stops I've had "downgraded" to a non-points offense that doesn't raise the ire of your insurance company. >MW
  13. langenc

    langenc Active Member

    Oct 23, 2009
    Montmorency Co, MI
    This is the second read I have done in the last 5 min that stated the cop needs a desk job.. Yes a desk job at some other employeer-not the taxpayers.
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