Obama bin Laden said we turn to "religion" and "guns"...he was right

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by Doug.38PR, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    North Louisiana
    It's been the talk at gunshows, gunforums and gunshops all across the union. Gun sales, particularly AR-15s and handguns are through the roof since Obama got "elected"
    He said us people out in rural areas (real Americans) turn to "religion" and "guns"....well he was right. I wish we would turn to more religion...because we shall need true religion before his regime is over.
    A gun shop in my area has run out of AR-15s and the warehouse they buy from is out as well (at least it was a few months ago). I just checked Midwayusa.com and they are OUT of ALL AR-15 magazines. I went to a gunshow in Houston about a month ago and one dealer had to close his table down as he had to catch up with all the paperwork because he couldn't keep up. Everyone was buying. A friend of mine called me tonight and told me that the ATF are running out of forms to fill out for gun purchases and they have told dealers that they can now make xerox copies to use for now.
    YOu can bet, that people are not buying all these guns just to give them to Obama and his goons in the House and Senate when they pass their "assault weapons" ban or whatever.
    I can hear Dixie proudly playing in the background on the fife and drum. I can see the red and blue colors of the St. Andrew's cross of the South, the Battle Flag, defiantly flying overhead, I can see armed civilians from all rural areas unfurling "come and take it" and "don't tread on me" flags in their town squares. I can see good local peace officers, state troopers and local National and State guards backing governors to protect their states. I can see good U.S. Marshalls, FBI Agents and men of the U.S. Military turning in their badges and resigning and joining their home states before enforcing such an evil order to disarm a free society.

    But before that happens, I would hope to see state legislatures nullifying any such federal laws.
    Free men must never give up the means to defend themselves.


    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  2. DontCryMrJefferson

    DontCryMrJefferson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    I completely agree with you except for one thing. I don't see what religion has to do with it. Both "sides" will claim they have god's support. In a way they must claim this to gain followers. But why must we have religion as a uniting cause? Why not unite under the cause of liberty and freedom regardless of religion or lack thereof?

    I suppose what I'm asking is:

    If someone wasn't a Christian or not religious at all yet still believed in freedom and liberty would you support them and accept them as part of your "family", team or "brotherhood"?

    I mean, the last thing we need in a time like this is something as divisive as religion. Why not just accept everyone on the grounds of liberty regardless of their (lack of) religion?

    The founders of this country thought that religion was between a man and his god, why make it anything more? We certainly don't want to fight a jihad, right?
  3. Doug.38PR

    Doug.38PR Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    North Louisiana
    Personally I think it would be a fine thing indeed if 100% of the population of this country realized Jesus Christ as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and pursued a life with that in mind. As said, I think we'll all be needing it before the Obama regime is over. BUT, that's not really the point of my original post.

    I'm not in any way claiming a jihad of "kill the infidel."

    However, while the cause of liberty and freedom is important, you have to understand what exactly that is. Your namesake, Mr. Jefferson, (Thomas I assume), had religious views that were, through most of his life anyway, largley unorthadox from Christianity. He and perhaps Franklin were exceptional, but they were and are two of the most notable of the Founding Fathers. They were not Christian per se, but they were bred by a Christian culture. Indeed, they were bred by Christian cultures (plural). The colonies were divided by denomination as much as they were colonial borders. BUT, as you are suggesting, they all had in mind the same worldview. And that is the key word "worldview." It was a Christian worldview that saw government made up of sinful dangerous men and hence too powerful to entrust with unlimited power. They saw themselves as subject to God before they were subject to the King. Indeed they saw the King (and all government) as God's servant in promoting TRUE law and order. If the King or government was behaving as a tyrant in the slightest way, then on those grounds it was their duty to resist and preserve their liberty.

    The problem we have today is that we are ALREADY divided WITHOUT religion. I'm not saying you personally have to be a church-going-Bible-reading-Christian to be able to defend liberty. But, part of our problem is that so many people 1) don't understand what true liberty is and 2) have made America their religion. or more to the point they have made government their god. That is they see man as the one who is to keep and protect them. And I'm not just talking about "Liberals" Conservatives are equally guilty of this. We have this mindset that "If we can just get McCain, Bush or some guy that stamps the word 'conservative' or "christian' next to his name...we'll be alright" They then proceed to promote, along with this candidate, laws that INCREASE the power of a central government supposedly to their favor. I.E. "We need a marriage protection amendment" or "We need an amendment banning abortion."
    I'm for true Marriage and not for abortion...but we don't need and shouldn't even consider letting a central government decide what these things are. If you give a central government this kind of power one day, they can just as easily turn around the next day and decide against you on those same things.
    We've reduced our political system in this country to nothing more than a power struggle. And worse it's a power struggle that is, when all is said and done, going only one direction. LEFT. Conservatives 20 years ago would call universal healthcare nothing more than socialism. Now every candidate, save Ron Paul, on the Republican ticket was treating it as though it is something we need to seriously consider.
    You see, we've made government (man) our religion, our god. A few weeks before the election, I remember John Stossel did a 20/20 special on the candidates and how they talked and were talked about as though they were Jesus. Obama and McCain were treated as though they were our savior and called themselves that consantly.

    True liberty is...well, being free to be "fruitful and muliply." Meaning it is being free to do what you were born to do. Free to serve your fellow man in your best capacity. Living up to the full potential you were given.
    It's not making sure you have 6 pack of beer or making sure you have an education or making sure you have enough money or making sure you haev enough medicine or making sure you have a roof over your head or making sure that everybody else embraces some weird "alternative lifestyle" (whatever that may be).
    The RTKBA is a right that protects this liberty. But armed men alone won't do it. We need a common theology. And by theology I don't mean we all have to go to the same building or even different buildings with different names on the front on Sunday. By theology we need to have a common way in which we view the world and our place in it. THEN we will be a force to be reconned with.
    But liberals and other neocons (liberals in disguise) don't want this. They want everybody as divided as possible to keep any resistance to a minimum. That's why they promote massive immigration, illegal immigration, multiculturalism, ban prayer in school, ban religion from life. The more divided they can keep people, the better off they are.
    Mom and dad grew up in small town South. The South, as you may know, is also known as the Bible Belt. It's culture is predominantly Christian, even if all the people aren't. Even many of those who aren't Christian have a Christian worldview. Each of the towns mom and dad lived in had some prominant Jewish members of the community. Obviously not Christian. They had their own holidays, their own way of doing things. They got along well with their non-Jewish neighbors. Exhanged Christmas gifts to be neighborly. Their children were gladly allowed to take off school on Jewish holiday's.
    This has been common in the South throughout this history of America. Indeed, I believe Charleston had more Jews in the 1700s than New York City did. They fought in the War for Independence. They were not Christian, but they had a Christian theology (worldview). They understood that "Big Government" was a dangerous thing just as their gentile neighbors.


    I've turned this post into an essay, but I hope this clarifies.

    Also, I didn't mean for this to turn into a thread about religion per se. But more about the fact that with all the gun sales, people aren't getting them just to give them up to Obama.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  4. DontCryMrJefferson

    DontCryMrJefferson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    I agree to a certain extent. To follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and not the rest of the Bible would certainly be a good thing, IMO. I have read the Bible several times and the only parts I find to teach truly good ideas and morals are Jesus' words. I think some can interpret the rest of the Christian bible to do terrible things because it does indeed talk of these terrible things and in some places encourages them.

    So, I think we agree about half-way. I think religion can be a good thing in some circumstances although I do not think it is absolutely necessary for protecting and securing freedoms and liberties. In fact, throughout history men have used the teachings of the Old Testament to control others and encourage dominion and despotism. Some of these "teachings" were perverted, but many of them were used 'as is'.

    Just remember that I have been constantly and consistently persecuted for my "religious" beliefs since I was about 12 and have had to lie about them just to get ahead in this country. So, unless you think that is right it shows that religion/Christianity can certainly be a divisive and oppressive force.

    But, that's a discussion for a different day and different thread. If you'd like me to delete this post to avoid the derailment of your thread, please, let me know ASAP!

    P.S. Yes, Thomas Jefferson was a deist for part of his life and became slightly more Christian as he got older from what I understand. However, I think he did believe that, like I said before, religion was between a man and his god and had no place in political thought or organizations so as not to exclude any person from the benefits of freedom and liberty and to not divide those who would fight for freedom into religious factions (which is what always seems to happen).
  5. Teejay9

    Teejay9 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,257
    Location:
    Southwest Corner of the US, "Where no stinking fen
    Hey Doug, I'm living in an area that used to be rural but it became suburban. Does that make me not a "real American" anymore? I hope not, because I still feel like one.
    I must agree with Mr. Jefferson, the Real One and DCMR, here. Politics and Religion aren't a good mix. Look at Islamic countries. They have both criminal police and religious police. Don't think I'd like to live under a regime like that. Ones' walk with ones' God is a personal thing. So, don't kick me out of the club just because my beliefs aren't necessarily the same as yours.
    It is going to get a bit sticky real quick for our new leader, and we'll see how well he handles it. Our guns will be put on the back burner in the face of the state of the economy, foreign affairs, two wars, and whatever else pops up. I suggest we all pray that he can handle it without really putting us in a pickle. Perhaps experience WILL be necessary. It could always get worse before it gets better. Hold on tight and keep your powder dry. TJ
    P.S. I have a German belt buckle that says, right above the eagle and swastika, "God's With US."
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  6. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,887
    Location:
    New Mexico

    Yep, the sales across the US show he was right. Good thread;)


    [​IMG]
  7. DontCryMrJefferson

    DontCryMrJefferson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    At least about one of them. Or are there higher sales of Bibles, Korans, pulpits, WWJD bracelets, fish stickers, crucifixes, wine, crackers, organs, Books of Mormon, P.O.D. CDs, indulgences, papal bulls etc... ?

    Which reminds me of a song called "Leper Messiah". Good times...
  8. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,025
    Judeo-Christian principles go without saying, in my opinion. But as far as the remainder, it reminds me of a cattle brand.

    Cattle brands and our liberty have a lot in common. Of the cattle brand: "A man's brand is his own special mark, it says, this is mine, leave it alone.* The flag of our liberties represents no different.


    *Footnote: Red Steagall, "Ridin' For the Brand"
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  9. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    8,214
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    I don't think they sell indulgences any more -
    And wasn't aware they ever sold papal bulls -
    wwjd bracelets? I haven't seen one of those in years.
    Books of Mormon are still free - contact any missionary of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
    Bibles are free too, in a lot of cases - stop by a church and ask. If you are in my neighborhood, stop by for service Sunday and I will gladly give you one.
    I don't see many Koran's around here.
    Not too many people, when turning to God, race out and buy either a pulpit or organ, wine or crackers.
    Fish stickers and crucifixes -
    You could be right on this one, as I do see an increasing number of both.

    What the heck is a P. O. D. CD?

    It boils down to this:
    People turning to God and Guns will be reflected mainly in two ways:
    Gun (and ammo) sales
    Church attendance

    I read that gun sales are way up -
    And can personally attest that church attendance is up also, at least in my area.
  10. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,357
    Location:
    A wretched hive of scum and villiany
    I can't speak for all of those, but you can get a copy of the Book of Mormon for free, along with a King James Version of the Bible by contacting a Mormon missionary or any member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints just as ampterry said.

    The point to all this is that if Obama and his closet-Commie friends want to bring us into the joys of a socialist gov't, they can't have us owning our own firearms or attending the church of our choice because then we wouldn't be worshipping our new messiah Obama or looking to the gov't for our every little need and desire:mad:
  11. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,457
    Location:
    Indiana
    P.O.D. is a Christian rock band that gained mainstream popularity around 2000-2002. "P.O.D." stands for "Payable on Death," and it is a reference to Jesus.
    I don't even know if P.O.D. is still a band.


    Church attendance seems to be up in every area. It's truly unfortunate that it takes dire times (most significantly, our economic situation) in this world for people to remember that we should put our focus on the next world.
  12. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    8,214
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    Unfortunate indeed.
    But it is good to know that folks still know where to turn when dire times DO hit -
  13. DontCryMrJefferson

    DontCryMrJefferson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    I know this. And thanks but I have several already; unless you have a version that I don't have yet, (i.e. the Septuagint, Peshitta or Vulgate). And there are Korans here (the US) because I have one of those, too. Also, you can buy Bibles and Books of Mormon (I got one of mine (Mormon) from a used bookstore) the other one was given to me by the Mormons but not for free. It was significantly costly. They wouldn't leave me alone and I was hounded for several months. Even to this day they contact my brother trying to get me to convert to Mormonism (sp?) At least the Muslims didn't do this!

    And about indulgences and Papal Bulls: My comment was in Jest but if you want to get picky I'm sure some Papal Bulls had money as their central object or reason for existing.

    Again, I was semi-joking.
  14. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,720
    Location:
    Akron, Ohio
    The pope owns cattle??:confused:
  15. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    18,268
    Location:
    Heart Of Texas
    funny thing. i was on another forum earlier today reading a thread about government, and now that i read this one about religion (or the lack thereof) i think its safe to say i have read the same thing twice... just a thought...;)
  16. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,720
    Location:
    Akron, Ohio
    I don't mean to be rude or insulting but I have observed that you tend to become a little "defensive" (if that's the right word), whenever religion or Christianity is mentioned. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs and I'm sure you recognize the right of others to theirs, but I believe you feel the need to offer some sort of rebuttal whenever someone expresses a belief in Jesus Christ. That takes your position beyond one of passive disagreement to active critic. That is fine if the point is to encourage debate on religion, but I think most members here are content to be free to make casual references to their faith without the need to defend it.

    Realizing of course that college students are encouraged to question everything and knowing that it is considered quite chic in acadamia (and encouraged) to declare oneself an agnostic, I do understand your skepticism. However there are some things you don't learn in school. Wisdom is not learned as quickly as facts are memorized. That is hard to accept when you are young, but it becomes clearer with time. With age and experience you may find that you are not so dismissive of those things based on faith.

    You say you have read the Bible and I have no reason to doubt that. You are certainly an intelligent and thinking person. One suggestion I would make is that it takes more than simply reading the Bible to understand it. Context is everything in reading the Bible and to understand context a concordance is invaluable. Recently I was reading Washingtons farewell address again and realized how much our language has changed in a little over 200 years. Imagine the changes in 2000 years. The difference is more than just expanded or evolved definitions of words; it is in HOW we express our thoughts. The Bible is easy to misinterpret without a guide.

    In light of this I would challenge your premise that the Christian Bible encourages "terrible" things. First of all we need to be clear if you are referring to the old or new testament. There are a number of things in the old testament which can be misunderstood. Much of it depends on a knowledge of what has gone on before. For example Gods instruction to the Israelites who are about to go to war, to destroy every enemy man, woman, and child might sound barbaric by todays standards when one does not understand the history and context.

    Ultimately it is important to realize the omnipotence, omnicience, and infinite authority of the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible. The Bible is meant to be read by those having a reverence for the Creator that understand that man can not have morals and ethics beyond those of God. It is for mortal man to understand rather than for God to explain. As Clint Eastwood said, "A man has got to know his limitations".

    I would encourage you to keep reading, keep questioning, and keep an open mind.
  17. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    8,214
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    LOL!!!!

    Fantastic!!

    DCMJ, it so happens I DO have two of those you mention; the Vulgate and the Septuagent. Also the first English translation, the Geneva Bible, which is most interesting that it is virtually WORD FOR WORD the KJV that is so popular, but written fifty some years earlier.
    The original language (spelling and letter forms) KJV is a lot of fun too - I LOVE folks to tell me they "only read the King James Version". I pull this copy of the original out, turn to a random place, and ask them to read it to me. They cannot, of course, which always surprises them.
    Those were all quite expensive, though, so we do not give them away.
    But the ones we DO give away, the KJV and the CEV, are no-strings attached, and I never pester people about anything.

    Now, about those pesky guys that keep knocking -
    I have a story for another thread.
  18. gunnut1980

    gunnut1980 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    I claim washington state, and pennsylvainia
    I bet the pope would be pro gun,seeing as how he used to be a nazi and all :)
  19. DontCryMrJefferson

    DontCryMrJefferson New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    I slowly gained my beliefs and thoughts on religion from the time I was ~7 to now. I had these beliefs before I went to school but even before I went I also had the belief that questions and skepticism are healthy.

    The reason I have an axe to grind with Christianity is because of the things I have lost and things that have been done to me because I don't believe the same as the majority in my state, county, city and country for that matter. However, I can grind my axe all day long as long as everyone else is allowed to do the same.

    I don't get all "in a fuss" when someone mentions that they believe Jesus Christ is our savior/messiah and that he was/is the son of God. I get "bothered" when people try to use that as a 'uniter' between people that are supposed to have different religious beliefs anyway. Our unity should come from the common belief in the principles of freedom, liberty, civil & individual freedoms and democracy (which, even though that technically doesn't have anything to do with the other four it seems to be the best way to ensure their existence). My point is, religion shouldn't matter; I wouldn't mind fighting along side a Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, Pagan, spiritualist or atheist as long as they believed in the principles I listed above. That is what should matter and that is what I will most likely always believe. Just as many of our founders believe, as do I: Religion is between a man and his god and has no purpose in the unification, division or control of human constituencies.

    Religion has proven to me to be more often than not a divisive force and until I see otherwise through my own eyes I will challenge and be skeptical of it; and even then I still might be skeptical because that is what keeps us free. Blind obedience will keep us locked in the shackles of tyranny forever and that is not an idea I intend to let slide by unchallenged.

    EDIT

    Actually, from my experience, this is not encouraged (at least in the South). I still must be very careful about what I say and where I tread for fear that I might not advance as quickly as someone who is more, shall I say, theistic. And that is putting it nicely. In reality some might actively attempt to deny me the same education as others. So, for the most part, I keep my mouth shut concerning religion at school and just nod my head when someone asks if I believe (they rarely do though; they just assume I do, so I have to nod my head as if in agreement to their rantings about atheists and such; these are teachers & students, mind you). I don't like it when I do it but I do because I have a family to think about.

    Perhaps this is why I'm so vocal here about it; because I don't get vocal about it anywhere else!
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  20. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    8,125
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Yea, we turn to religion and guns because it's what we can depend on. Put your trust in God not man.

    We turn to GOD because we trust him. We turn to guns because we can't trust man.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Constitutional & RKBA Forum Will obama catch on ? Feb 28, 2014
The Constitutional & RKBA Forum Cornyn-Graham to introduce law codifying Obama directive Jan 9, 2014
The Constitutional & RKBA Forum Obama Will Sign UN Gun Treaty While Congress Is On Vacation Aug 14, 2013
The Constitutional & RKBA Forum Obama prepping to ban importation of Ammo, mags,accessories Apr 25, 2013
The Constitutional & RKBA Forum After Senate setback, Obama quietly moving forward with gun regulation Apr 23, 2013

Share This Page