Oberndorf Mauser 98 Commercial Sporting Carbine, Type M:

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by RobArtRees, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. RobArtRees

    RobArtRees New Member

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    Oberndorf Mauser 98 Commercial Sporting Carbine, Type M?

    Can anyone confirm what this rifle is, date of manufacture, possible value, and sources of information. I think I have a pre-WW II Oberndorf Mauser 98 Commercial Sporting Carbine, Type M:

    • The bolt housing is stamped "6,5KP Waffenfabrik Mauser - Oberndorf N/A" with serial number is 879XX
    • Above the serial no. are "Crown over U" and "Crown over B" stamps
    • The barrel has 250/3000 on the side and matching serial number on the bottom
    • The bolt (and several other internal parts) has a number that matches the last two numbers of the serial no.
    • The stock is an uncheckered Mannlicher "style" with a couple inches of black wood near the muzzle; there are no markings on the stock.
    • The adjustable set trigger has matching serial no. on housing
    • When I acquired it there was a Weaver K4 scope mounted and no sign of any metal sights ever being installed.

    Special thanks to “Hammerslagger” on this forum, who has been very helpful in getting me this far in figuring out what I this is.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  2. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    While not my field of expertise, I strongly suspect that this rifle was built in the USA, by a custom maker, using a pre WW II commercial Mauser action, likely imported by Stoeger.

    I just looked at another 1930's German rifle. The barrel is proofed with three marks Crown over "U", "B" and "G" ("G" being rifled barrel proof), Crown over "N" and the word "Nirto" as well as the city mark where proofed (Kiel). {All in plain view.} The "U", "B", & "G" marks were required by law.

    I do not know how the Stoeger Savage .250/3000 Mauser imports were caliber marked; but it is likely with more than just "250/3000". Also the wood on this rifle does not appear to be of German style.

    I sincerely hope that I am mistaken about it not being complete German manufacture, unless you can find the trademark stamp of some famous and collector interest U S custom maker on it somewhere.
  3. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Can you show pictures of the proofmarks?

    My book shows a crown over a U that is an East German proof (obviously post-war), and a crown over a U that is a German proof from 1891 to 1939. The crowns are different. I've got about 5 different crown shapes in my proofmark list, and they are from different time periods. Exactly which crown you have will help to date the gun.
  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Also, the stock does not look pre-war. The cheek-piece, to me, does not look German, and I've not seen a Monte Carlo comb on a pre-war gun before. The barrel looks long, for that style stock. Taking a guess, by blocking some of it out on the picture with my thumb, about four inches too long.
  5. RobArtRees

    RobArtRees New Member

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    Not the greatest picture, but here are the proof marks. There is nothing stamped on the barrel other than the caliber and serial number.

    Attached Files:

  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    It's not the East German crown. Looks like the pre-1939 crown.
  7. RobArtRees

    RobArtRees New Member

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    The barrel is 22 inches.
  8. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I just measured my one mannlicher-stocked rifle. 20 inch barrel. Measured a normal 98. 22 inches. I'm thinking that however and wherever that gun started out, it was restocked in this country in the 60s or later.
  9. RobArtRees

    RobArtRees New Member

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    How do we account for the matching serial numbers on receiver, barrel, trigger housing, trigger levers, bolt, etc.? Would it be possible that a receiver could be bought from Germany without a serial number, and later stamped with the rest of the parts be an American "sporterizer"?
    And BTW, what is the difference between Type "A" and "M" Mausers?
  10. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    As mentioned in the thread that you started out on, Mauser manfactured and A. F. Stoeger Inc. imported 20 different Mauser commercial actions in the 1930's.

    Yours is apparently a #6, as sold by Stoeger. The "6,5KP" stamping will likely translate into English as being for the European 6.5 mm Short (K) Cartridge (P) (6.5 X 54 mm) as opposed to the 6.5 X 58 mm cartridge (likely 6,5LP). The latter caliber being a Mauser #1 action as identified and sold by Stoeger. I do not know an answer for your Type A & M question.

    The bolt, trigger guard and magazine were part of the action. Therefore, it is likely that Mauser put the receiver serial # (or last part of) on them, as is often still European practice relative to firearms.

    As for the barrel, to the best of my knowledge, the lack of previously described (in this thread) proof marks means that it is not of European manufacture. Unlike the USA, most of the European community has had "Proof Laws" for at least 100 years. The barrel(s) get proof stamps in almost all cases, because this is the part that is most prone to pressure failure.

    The likely original cost for your action alone, with double set triggers, was about $92.50 when a new complete Winchester 70 rifle (of Mauser design, US made, in calibers up to .375 H&H Mag.) cost $61.25 in "Standard Grade" or $84.85 in "Super Grade".

    I understand that you are probably not hearing what you would like the hear relative to this rifle. However, I can assure you (from reading his posts) Alpo is a very knowledgeable member. The facts relative to this rifle are as follows: The Germans had (have) barrel proof marking laws. Pre WW II German manufacturers usually stamped or engraved more information on the barrel(s) than was required by law. Mauser exported finished actions with out barrels, in at least 20 size variants, to the USA for sale by Stoeger. Most gunsmiths who would be capable of fitting a barrel, stock, and telescopic sight to an action, would be capable of stamping the action's serial # on the barrel.

    I think the bottom line is that this action was barreled and likely stocked in the USA.
  11. RobArtRees

    RobArtRees New Member

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    Thanks for your thorough explanation. I just want to get enough accurate info about the rifle so I do not misrepresent it when I try it sell it. Thanks again for your help.
  12. Huvius

    Huvius New Member

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    New guy here.
    Saw this during an Oberndorf Mauser websearch.
    The gun in question is actually a Kurz action - one of the rarest commercial Mausers ever made.
    Now, everything else on the gun is junk IMO, but the action alone is probably worth around $2K to the right guy even with the scope mount holes.
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