Okay experts!

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

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    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 788
    (6/19/01 8:12:06 pm)
    Reply Okay experts!
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    I'd like to hear your arguments as to which 1911 type 45 to buy.

    No bashing the competition please - just straight forward responses as to why which one gun is better than another.

    Admittedly I'm pretty set on what I intend to go get in August but it never hurts to get input on what else is out there (does Beretta make 45's?). Don't worry I doubt I could afford a Beretta 45 if they do.

    tuckerd1
    Member
    Posts: 198
    (6/19/01 8:21:45 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    The Springfield 'loaded ' pistols are real good and I like the Kimber Custom and Custom Targets. All are affordable very good shooting production pistols and can be had well under $700.00 NIB. Bought my Kimber Custom Target for $575 like new still in box and all papers. Shot 1" group at 25yds first day out with 200gr SWC reloads.

    Edited by: tuckerd1 at: 6/19/01 9:28:32 pm

    Alphamale
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 364
    (6/19/01 8:26:06 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Beretta makes a .45, it's the Model 8045 Couger and a mini version the 8045 Mini-Cougar. Not sure what they sell for, but the MSRP in the book I got is $724.
    "Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyranize their teachers."--Socrates (470-399 B.C.)

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 789
    (6/19/01 8:31:11 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    I really wish you hadn't of told me they make 45's Alpha - you know I'm going to have to buy one eventually (but not this minute I hope).

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 917
    (6/19/01 9:18:55 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Best bang for the buck, mil-spec springfield 1911A1 loaded, around 4 1/2 skins, less when specials run. JMHO

    Bompa
    Member
    Posts: 36
    (6/19/01 9:31:13 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    What about the Colt 1991 or a Dan Wesson ??
    Think I would choose Colt over Springfield but own both..
    Saw the Wesson at a gun show and they looked nice..

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 426
    (6/20/01 8:06:21 am)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    What are you looking for "T".....a 1911, or just something that shoots .45ACP? Single action? Double action? And what do you want to use it for?

    If you're looking for a shooter/home defense gun, how about one of those Argentine M1927s that are selling so cheap?

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 802
    (6/20/01 8:13:42 am)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    XRacer,

    For the moment I just want to own one. A 45 has always been something I've wanted since I was in my teens (don't ask me why as I really don't know). However, I know absolutely nothing about them except they shoot bigger bullets than my 9mm. Yes, I have shot a couple, and yes I know they are as a general rule bigger and harder to shoot than my 9mm.

    For the moment I'm looking for something that is reasonable (the Beretta price is not reasonable for me right now at least not new that is) and that is brand spanking new. I've never owned a gun that was not used by someone before me and thought this could be my first purchase of one. As such I'd like to know factors in regards to different brands so I could make a somewhat educated purchase. I realize in the end it will depend on the pocket book and what 1911 variant that I can actually get my hands around to hold onto when I shoot.

    For the moment it would be a shooter - would not use a gun for home/self defense if I don't feel somewhat comfortable with it. I'm very comfortable with my .22 and fast becoming more proficient with the 9mm.

    shooter45 us
    *Senior Chief Moderator*
    Posts: 508
    (6/20/01 9:33:06 am)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    T, I just missed a deal on a Norinco 1911-A1 for $200. If you can find one of these expect to pay $250 - $300. Excellent pistols. At times I have found Colt 1991-A1's for $325 - $350. Just take your time, shop wisely and ask before you buy. But remember, no one owns just one .45.

    bondai
    Moderator
    Posts: 138
    (6/20/01 12:26:49 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    How about a Glock 21 ???? too big ???

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 429
    (6/20/01 3:10:55 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    OK "T".......shop around. If you like the 1911 but feel the grip is too large......you can change the arched mainspring housing (that thing on the lower back of the grip, under the grip safety) for a flat one. It makes a big difference to a person with small hands























    .....soft, goat milking hands that is.......hehehehehehe



    sorry xracer, couldn`t help it. LTS

    Edited by: LIKTOSHOOT at: 6/20/01 4:54:42 pm

    tuckerd1
    Member
    Posts: 205
    (6/20/01 6:20:15 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    TLynn, Do you want a pistol that shoots a 45 buddit, or do you want a 1911 pistol. Big difference here. The 1911 and the clones are some of the best feeling pistols you can put in your hands. And, it has some civilian, military and gundesign genius behind it.

    You can buy many pistols that shoot the 45ACP buddit. But, there is only one design that gives you that special feel and mystique to its' heritage.

    I DON"T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS!!!

    1911 LIVES FOREVER!!!

    I hope I'm as "dead" at 90 as 1911's are! For You LTS!



    1911's Are Forever!

    Everything else are wannabes!!!!

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 810
    (6/20/01 8:39:01 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    tuckerd1 - it has to be on a 1911 frame. A 45 acp would be nice but I truly want one that is based on the original frame style. I am a firm believer of aquiring any and all guns that I can one step at a time.

    I can buy a new Israeli Arms 45 for $389. So you can see my price range is around $400-$500 at the moment. By next year I can afford a more expensive one but I just bought my 4x4 Ford back and I got to pay that off first. Can't believe how much I've missed that truck for the last 3 1/2 yrs.

    I will not be satisfied with just the one 45 (nor am I satisfied with one 9mm either or 8mm or 303 - aggggg).

    My goal is to have 2 of everything.

    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 304
    (6/20/01 8:59:05 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Psssssssssst......(whisper)........New Beretta .45 Cougar or Mini-Cougar, $579.

    heeheheheheee


    Purveyor of Fine Firearms to the Enlightened Few
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 812
    (6/20/01 9:01:29 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Damn AntiqueDr - really???

    Oh my am I in trouble now.

    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 307
    (6/20/01 9:19:42 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    IAI (Israeli Arms) $379.95
    Charles Daly $ 419.95
    Kimber Pro Carry blue $659.95
    Llama Max-1 $249.95
    Para Ordnance P10 $ 599.95
    Springfield $579.95


    heehehhehehhehheeeeeeee


    Purveyor of Fine Firearms to the Enlightened Few
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 813
    (6/20/01 9:42:05 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    AntiqueDr - that's all fine and dandy - but which one???

    Like I said at the start of this thread I'd like to hear pros and/or cons on what makes one better than the other - not your feelings mind you but actual facts.

    Though I thank you for the pricing info.

    Bompa
    Member
    Posts: 40
    (6/21/01 8:16:19 am)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    "T",,,
    It seems that your IAI choice is a good one,have heard no
    bad about them..I looked,but no touchie feelie,at the Dan
    Wesson and was impressed..Nobody recommends the Colt
    1991 for some reason and I am very happy with the one I have..It is an older model but have heard that the current
    production is very good..Have a couple of Springfields,older
    models also,that are great..
    The reason I have no new ones is they can't be sold in Mass.
    Believe things are worse here than in Kali.
    The thing to do is,if possible,shoot the different brands and then make your decision..

    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 308
    (6/21/01 3:07:39 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    The answer is obvious! One of each!



    Purveyor of Fine Firearms to the Enlightened Few
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 436
    (6/21/01 3:36:43 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Generally speaking.......I'd stay away from the Llama. Some people like 'em....many don't.

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 559
    (6/21/01 8:19:56 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Don't insult the Spanish guns, dagnabit!
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!


    tuckerd1
    Member
    Posts: 213
    (6/21/01 9:46:50 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    DAMN!! It's amzing how a female can bring the guys out of the woodwork!!! Way to go TLynn!!

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 441
    (6/22/01 8:08:44 am)
    Reply Sorry, Bob
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    Damn......I knew that would get me in trouble with ya, Bob!

    hammer4nc
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (6/22/01 6:28:01 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    TLynn,

    Beware the John Browning mystique! Many have approached the purchase of their first 1911 with all the deliberation you've shown, and before they realize it, they're in way, way over their head. If you shoot them a few times, you'll likely find one that just seems to melt into your hand...Next, your first detailed teardown, and your suddenly left with the impression of being a part of history, a witness to almost divine guidance some 100 years ago. If you've tended to dwell on guns in the past...BAM! kick it up a notch...1911 fever!

    Fair warning, TLynn. Some may call it addiction, I prefer to compare it to the contagion of a brazilian samba...its a good thing.

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 835
    (6/22/01 7:24:27 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    hammer4nc - I got the desire and need for guns so I think that adding the 1911's to my equation will not be that much different.

    Can't wait to pick up my next one (oops I think I'd better call and see if my dealer has gotten the paperwork on the one gun yet - I've been told I'm way too casual about some things).

    Bompa
    Member
    Posts: 42
    (6/22/01 8:16:12 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    TLynn....
    You are aware that 1911's are like potato chips,You just can't stop at one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You have been warned ....

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 836
    (6/22/01 8:24:42 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Bompa - one is never enough for any gun!

    Bompa
    Member
    Posts: 44
    (6/22/01 10:40:38 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    I stand corrected Dear..

    AntiqueDr
    Moderator
    Posts: 317
    (6/22/01 11:01:54 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Well, I have owned and/or currently own most all of them. The one currently resting on the nightstand in the Galco holster is......... Norinco 1911A1, absolutely stock!


    Purveyor of Fine Firearms to the Enlightened Few
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    shooter45 us
    *Senior Chief Moderator*
    Posts: 526
    (6/23/01 2:24:50 am)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    AD, I just bought another one, it had 5 rounds fired thru it. I fired a few more rounds, hardball then swc's. The Norinco fed ,fired and ejected every round. I'll see how it prints on paper today. I think this is the 5th or 6th Norinco I've owned. Best on the market for the price.

    reedbuster
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (6/24/01 12:50:44 am)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    I see that DPMS Inc. is know manufacturing 1911's. You can get the kit for around 500.00, or start with a frame and build your own. I see that they are to original mil-spec, has anyone handled one?
    Is that a pickle in your pocket? .....

    rayra
    Registered User
    Posts: 10
    (6/26/01 1:22:24 am)
    Reply
    Re: Okay experts!
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    Have owned / shot a Colt 1911 Series 80 for 17yrs. Fine gun, especially for purists .
    Have shot the hell out of it, plus 2 seasons Limited IPSC, and surely enjoyed competing with the beat up original Parkerized finish and bolt-on accessories.
    A 1991A1 would be nice, ~$500

    Seriously considering / shopping for a Springfield as a replacement, retiring the Colt to the nightstand.
    Springfields come new out of the box with many of the tuning features you would have to add to the Colt, for that same ~$500.

    A friend tried a Llama for a year, ~12yrs ago, a sore piece of junk. Got decent factory support for repairs, but had to send it in TWICE in that 12mos. New out of the box the slide / frame fit was horrible, plus Llama makes a few stylistic changes to the lines of the gun which I found unappealing.

    Lots of modern double-action modern 45s out there, but usually in the $625+ range.

    Have seen a few Kimbers and Daly pieces at the range, seem fine, don't have a clue what their advantages might be (price OR quality).

    Rich

    Bompa
    Member
    Posts: 49
    (6/26/01 7:03:10 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    "T"
    Did any of this help in any way??
    Or will you just go out and buy what you had in mind anyway????
    Guess I would...

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 891
    (6/26/01 8:15:25 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Bompa - some of it did help - I will end up buying what fits I guess - but in the meantime I now have a much better idea of what I actually will be looking at.

    Bompa
    Member
    Posts: 50
    (6/26/01 10:49:57 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Good for you girl !!
    Whatever you decide on enjoy it and shoot the heck out of it..
    Nothing like a hot babe with a hot pistol...

    Chief 101
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 4
    (7/8/01 1:31:00 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    WOW, can't believe no one has mentioned the Para Ord.!

    I'v owened a bunch of .45s from colts to glocks to smiths. A few months ago I bought a LDA 14.5 in stainless. Good looking gun, a might heavy and pricey tho. The "Light Double Action" trigger takes a little getting used to, but BOY OH BOY what a shooter! None of my other .45s will shoot with it.

    I think next I want to try one of the slim line glocks in .45. I'm not a big glock fan, but it looks like it may be easier to carry on a dayly basis........

    Just my .02

    Steve

    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 194
    (7/13/01 3:51:25 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    hammer4nc, You are telling the truth about the JMB guns. Like stepping back in history seeing the way he blazed a path for all others to follow in firearms manufacturing. Look at the simple genious of the A-5. In production for almost 100 years. Tokk something like 50 years for another manufacturer to come up with a dependable auto to compete against it. Then there all his machine guns. I could go on all day. God Bless John Moses Browning.
    I fear we have awaked a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve. Jap. Admiral Yamamota directly after Pearl Harbor. If the women don't find you handsome, at least they will find you handy. Red Green. I am the ILLUSTRIOUS POTENTATE!

    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 195
    (7/13/01 3:52:10 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    hammer4nc, You are telling the truth about the JMB guns. Like stepping back in history seeing the way he blazed a path for all others to follow in firearms manufacturing. Look at the simple genious of the A-5. In production for almost 100 years. Tokk something like 50 years for another manufacturer to come up with a dependable auto to compete against it. Then there all his machine guns. I could go on all day. God Bless John Moses Browning.


    TLynn, I thought you have a RG 10. Why would you need anything else.
    I fear we have awaked a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve. Jap. Admiral Yamamota directly after Pearl Harbor. If the women don't find you handsome, at least they will find you handy. Red Green. I am the ILLUSTRIOUS POTENTATE!

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1305
    (7/13/01 7:59:18 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    warpig - I do have a RG-10 though it has another letter or somethng involved in it - it also doesn't shoot .22 shorts but .22lr.

    However, I'd sooner trust my Beretta M71 .22 than that. Not to mention I know my RG has had very little ammo put through it - in very, very good condition (that and I'm afraid if I shot it and broke it grandma would come back and haunt me).

    KimberRuger
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (7/15/01 1:27:19 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    When I first started looking for a 1911, I did a ton of research - nearly four months worth. I wanted a relaible, shootable, CCW, .45 and single action. Other than that, I knew very little.


    I was advised against Llama - everyone (except one guy who I wouldn't consider "informed") said they were pretty much junk. Every Llama I saw looked "cheesy", and felt worse. Maybe, if the only thing you've ever held was polymer, it wouldn't feel too bad - until you picked up a real 1911 that is.
    (not slighting the poly's, simply comaring the feel of Llama to any others)


    I heard a lot of "unreliable" and "trouble with the (fill in the blank) when discussing Daly's, but I did find a few guys who had them, and after a few intial quirks, love them. In Daly's defense, you can have "quirks" even with some of the higher end brands. The thing I liked most about the Daly was the price - it's well within your range.

    The next step up for me was a Springfield. Comfortable in the hand and to the wallet. The only thing I really heard bad was that some of the newer ones were prone to launching the front sight - one of those pesky "quirks".


    My final comparision, the one I chose, was a Kimber Compact Carry, in all stainless. I fired nearly every type of Kimber out there thanks to the kindness of strangers at the local range. For me, the Ultra Carry, which is available in many configurations, had just a tad more felt recoil and muzzle jump than I cared for. It seemed to me that it need just a bit more
    weight to it on the front end or something. I also shot a Compact in Stainless and Aluminum, and still that had something missing. Then I shot the stainless/stainless one. It did exactly what I wanted - quick to point, fast target acquisition after firing, and less recoil. It was a smidgeon smaller in the grip frame than the Pro Carry HD, better for concealment. My wife (4' 11", small hands, is comfortable with it too).

    At about $750 out of the box without Kimber's CDP (custom defense package) treatment, it fit into the budget I had allowed at the time as well.


    I just read in Shotgun News (I think) an interesting article about 1911's. It seems that you're better off going with a Colt, Springfield or Kimber that has been "factory tuned" than buying a mil-spec one and sending it out to the smith yourself.


    Of course, this is just my opinion, and opinions are as many as rifle cartridges .......



    I'd suggest shooting as many different styles and brands as possible before you actually lay your money down.




    Patrick


    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1363
    (7/15/01 3:45:28 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Now that was a very informed and logical argument KimberRuger - I appreciate it. I may get one that isn't quite that pricey to start out with and work my way up. Hoping to get to shoot some more .45's in the next few weeks as it has been over 20 yrs since I shot the last one.

    KimberRuger
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (7/15/01 5:36:01 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    TLynn, (can I call you TLynn ?)

    My pleasure. A lot of how much you spend will depend on what exactly you want. As I said, without the CDP treatment, the Kimber's are signifigantly less.

    Two additional thoughts: 1) You get what you pay for - if you want frustration and aggravation, FTF's, stovepiping, jambs, etc., but an "El Cheapo" and

    2) DON"T BUY MEPROLIGHT NIGHT SIGHTS !!!!!


    Respectfully,

    Patrick

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1370
    (7/15/01 6:41:08 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
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    Kimber (you don't mind if I call you that I hope?), TLynn is my name - but it was taken on the ezboards already so I went back to my old standby. You may call me TLynn, TLT, TL or T and I'll answer to them all (I would prefer not to be called Lynn but I'll answer to that as well).

    I will not buy a cheap (as in working) gun but I will hunt for the best bargain I can find. Kind of why I haven't bought a 45 just yet - still shopping around. But I sure do appreciate the info you gave me along with all the other info I received on this topic.

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1378
    (7/15/01 8:32:47 pm)
    Reply Re: Okay experts!
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2003
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