Once and for all: which has greater recoil, 9mm. or .45

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 9, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member

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    antediluvianist
    Member
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    (1/23/03 8:37:18 am)
    Reply Once and for all : which has greater recoil, 9mm. or .45
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    Hello. I'm a newbie. Just six months since I bought my first gun - Taurus 4" barrel 7-shot .38Special. Needed something simple to start on , and a gun my wife won't flinch from. Purpose is home defense.

    Now I want to buy an auto. Recoil is still a consideration. Have fired both 9mm. (CZ75) and .45 (Colt). Standard loads each. Yeah, 9mm. seems to have less recoil. I want my wife to be able to use this second gun too so recoil is important.

    My question : some of you guys have written that in your experience the .45 has less recoil than the 9mm. What .45 was that?

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/23/03 9:39:06 am)
    Reply Re: Once and for all : which has greater recoil, 9mm. or .45
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    Hi ADV......welcome to TFF.

    .45 ACP has more recoil than 9mm.....period.

    However, felt recoil can differ greatly from design to design. Such things as the weight of the bolt or slide, the distance and speed at which it travels, shape of the handle, type of grips, the shooter's stance and grip of the pistol, ect., can all affect the felt recoil.

    For personal defensive purposes, I much prefer .45 ACP. However, for home defense, I'd recommend a shotgun.....pump or auto. It doesn't necessarily have to be a 12 guage either. If your wife can handle a 20 ga., that will do the job nicely. To a bad guy looking down the end of any shotgun barrel, it still looks like the entrance to the Holland Tunnel.

    Im3rd
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/23/03 2:08:48 pm)
    Reply Once and for all
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    Ante- It depends on the weight of the gun the cartridge is fired in. A 38 ounce steel frame 1911 firing a 230 grain bullet @ 850 fps will produce 6.2 ft lbs of free recoil. A typical 28 ounce 9mm pistol firing a 115 grain bullet @ 1220 fps will produce 4.9 ft lbs of free recoil. For comparison, your 4" medium frame .38 special firing a standard velocity 158 grain bullet @ 755 fps produces 3.2 ft lbs of recoil, about 1/2 the recoil of a 1911 firing hardball.

    If you choose a heavier, all steel 9mm pistol the recoil would be considerably less than the .45 cal 1911. OTOH, if you choose something like a 14 ounce Kel-Tec 9mm pistol the recoil would be more than a full size .45 1911.

    Im3rd
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (1/23/03 2:33:15 pm)
    Reply once and for all
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    Sorry for the double post, I don't know what happened.

    Anyway, I should add that the recoil you feel is often much different from the actual recoil. A pistol that fits your hand and has a comfortable rubber grip will cause you to feel less recoil than a same weight gun with a hard wood or plastic grip that doesn't fit your hand.

    There are several other factors that affect how you feel recoil. I seem to notice recoil more with a pistol than a revolver of the same weight and ballistics. I think it must be the weight of the slide recoiling that seems to add more "kick" to the semi-auto.

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/23/03 2:54:50 pm)
    Reply Re: once and for all
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    Perceived recoil is a funny thing. I have noticed that the 9mm tends to have a sharper, more abrupt recoil, whereas the 45, even though it is a heavier recoil, is more of a "rolling" recoil, lifting your hands a bit higher, but not with as sharp a bite as the 9mm.

    I don't know if that makes sense. Anyway, I actually prefer the 45.

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5313
    (1/23/03 4:23:28 pm)
    Reply Re: once and for all
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    Im3rd, thanks for your imput it's good to have members jumping right in with both feet.

    And DON'T WORRY about your dbl. post... I took care of it for you


    I need to agree with Bob... alot has to do with the particular pistol vs. ammo being used.

    Reloading 45's @ 750 fps is as about as tame as you can get, and enjoyable too



    Quote:
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    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
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    boomatic
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    (1/23/03 7:39:13 pm)
    Reply
    Re: once and for all
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    Uh...yeah. What they said.

    I found a reload formula that operates each of my .45's just as I like. I load some paper poppers that definitely have less perceived recoil than the good ol' factory Win 115 grain 9mm.

    But all in all, like X'er said...if it is home defense proprietary...get a shotgun. I have a pretty little remington 870 for that purpose.

    2003 Rose Bowl Champions!!!!
    Boom-a-tic
    *Ne'er-Do-Well Wannabe Junior Non-Staff Moderator of the Test Forum*
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    antediluvianist
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    (1/23/03 9:16:44 pm)
    Reply recoil: 9mm. vs .45
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    Thanks for your inputs, guys. I like your idea about a 20-gauge shotgun for home defense, except that around here (Manila) it's a good idea to kill the intruder or he will come after you eventually. Bullets will probably do that better from across a room, and 16 shots in the mag. leave plenty of margin to miss and still keep shooting. .

    Guys, what do you think of the TANFOGLIO line of pistols. Known as 9mm. "Witness" in the US, imported by "EEA". Any comments? Thanks.



    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/23/03 9:21:30 pm)
    Reply Re: once and for all
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    Nice pistol....a little crude....but nice just the same....prefer the .45acp because of the softer rolled recoil-as opposed to the sharp 9mm recoil----but that`s me.

    Never under-estimate the shotgun with light birdshot loads.
    PURE ENERGY IN THE TARGET!!

    LTS



    outlawraven
    Member
    Posts: 9
    (1/23/03 9:47:55 pm)
    Reply home defense
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    my ex girlfriend was about 5 foot 2 and tipped the scales at about 100lbs and all she wanted to shoot was her walther .380 till she shot my 1911 full size colt .45 now she wont shoot anything else she told me that at first the recoil was mean but you get used to it bud shes popping paper in like 4 inch groups at 15 yards not bad for anyone so a .45 is not to much recoil but what matters in home defense is the ability to keep a cool head and focus on the target. a good home defense weapon is still the shotgun w/ lighter loads but if your focused on a pistol practice makes perfect maybe even some drills as what if senerios just my 2 cents bud.
    www.fredsm14stocks.com

    boomatic
    V.I.P. Member
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    (1/24/03 12:40:13 pm)
    Reply
    Re: once and for all
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    Gotta disagree about the 20ga.

    Load it with 00 buckshot. A magazine extension will give you pleanty of tries at it.

    Better than a 9mm anyday for home defense.

    That is...in my absolutely infallible opinion!!

    2003 Rose Bowl Champions!!!!
    Boom-a-tic
    *Ne'er-Do-Well Wannabe Junior Non-Staff Moderator of the Test Forum*
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    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/24/03 2:18:44 pm)
    Reply Re: home defense
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    Right On Boomatic



    Quote:
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    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ZiggedandZagged@aol.com



    Chas
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    (1/24/03 4:01:49 pm)
    Reply Re: once and for all
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    LTS...I guess that's the first I heard of "light bird loads" for home defense. Always thought that the 00 buck was the preferred choice. Dang. What do I do now...alternate?
    I might just throw in a slug for good measure.

    Any more comments out there about home self defense shotgun loads? This oughta be good for the economy.

    chuck

    WhiteRyeno
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (1/24/03 6:16:00 pm)
    Reply Re: Once and for all : which has greater recoil, 9mm. or .45
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    I think that the choice between 00 buck and bird loads depends upon where you live. I live in a stick-built condo, so I keep my home defense shotgun loaded with #4 bird shot. That way if I ever have to shoot someone in my house any missed shots don't go through my wall an kill a neighbor.

    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1419
    (1/25/03 3:57:13 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Once and for all : which has greater recoil, 9mm. or .45
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The choice of buckshot over birdshot for home defense is subjective to home environment living conditions.

    An apartment/condo dweller may probably be best served with birdshot so in the event of a discharge within the confines of the apartment/condo the shot does not overpenetrate and endanger individuals inhabiting other rooms.

    The owner of a single residence home may wish to consider the use of 00Buck; however #4Buck should not be discounted as a defensive load.

    In any event, the use of rifled slugs for a defensive load (unless you are on a bear hunting trip and an animal invades your home) is not recommended for a variety of reasons, the least of which is over penetration or unsighted firing of a cartridge.


    Quote:
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    Guys, what do you think of the TANFOGLIO line of pistols. Known as 9mm. "Witness" in the US, imported by "EEA". Any comments? Thanks.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    The EAA line of firearms imported from Tanfaglio of Italy are quality firearms. As previously stated, a little crude (as in polishing/smoothing of some parts) but a rock solid firearm. Their all steel models are a bit hefty in the hand, but their heft is complimented by the way they do fit. The nice thing about the Witness line of pistols is that you can purchase additional barrels, guide rods, springs, etc. and change over to any of the major calibers. Calibers available are 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, 10mm and 38Super. And a word here on the 38Super - do not discount it as a defense load. Inherently accurate, the 38Super is a powerhouse that almost equals the 45ACP for down range OOMPH.







    PASQUOT
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (1/28/03 12:47:10 pm)
    Reply 9mm or 45
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    Hi Guys

    I shoot both 9 and 45. 9mm in sig p226. Most accurate gun i have. 45 is springfield armory. full size.

    If your primary goal is self defense, You are all frogetting one important thing. "PUCKER FACTOR'

    I am a retired police officer and have had friends shoot other people. Some of the say they never even heard the gun go off not alone worry about recoil. Your body gets soo pumped up, "fight or flight" it doesn't matter.

    However, police officers have more practice than most people. therefore, shot placement is second nature with a 9mm. But all you have to do with a 45 or shotgun is hit him anywhere with one bullet and it's all over.

    Go with the 45.

    Az45Shooter
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (1/30/03 11:15:52 pm)
    Reply recoil
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    What's so great about recoil anyway?

    boomatic
    V.I.P. Member
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    (2/2/03 10:08:42 am)
    Reply
    Re: 9mm or 45
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    AZ..........


    Re-reading this thread it occurs to me that you don't include a 40...how about a CZ 40?

    2003 Rose Bowl Champions!!!!
    Boom-a-tic
    *Ne'er-Do-Well Wannabe Junior Non-Staff Moderator of the Test Forum*
    Progenitor of the Boomatic Plague

    NEtracker
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (2/4/03 10:28:43 am)
    Reply Need to Get a .45
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    I really like my 9mm's (P99, Hi Power), but I am adding a 1911 to my wish list for 2003.

    NEtracker
    Member
    Posts: 28
    (2/16/03 12:49:25 am)
    Reply Recoil of heavy 1911 vs light 9mm
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    I find that I can make quicker follow up shots with the SW1911 than with a P99 9mm. The .45 may kick a little bit more, but weight & grip have a lot to do with the "felt" recoil. & the lighter 9mm has a bit more muzzle flip.

    magnum74
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (2/18/03 12:29:10 am)
    Reply Re: once and for all
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    Yes. I agree with Bob from St. Louis. I own a 9mm and a .45. The 9mm has a sharper, snappier recoil. The .45 on the other hand as a heavy, more solid recoil. Kinda like a slow motion feel to it. It's actually a nice feeling. After shooting those two different pistols I actually can tell which recoils harder...and it's the .45 hands down. The .45 leaves a very very slight humm in my hand afterwards. But I also agree that ergonomics plays a big role in felt recoil. Lotta factors in this subject.

    blowsomethingup
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (2/23/03 10:39:14 pm)
    Reply Re: Once and for all : which has greater recoil, 9mm. or .45
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    no 9mm ever built will have more recoil than a 45 acp period.
    the powder charge is double in a 45 acp,and it pushes a bullet twice as heavy as the 9mm.
    the 9 will have more velocity,but the 45 will have much more impact energy on its target.
    most woman can handle a 9mm with no problems.
    I suggest renting one and letting your wife/gf chose the pistol she likes.

    Crpdeth
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 288
    (3/1/03 1:35:16 am)
    Reply
    Re: once and for all
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    The exception to the above post is when you choose a little 'ol plastic .9mm and a nice hefty 1911 .45

    The "percieved" recoil of the .45 is much less.

    I also agree with PASQUOT in the fact that in a stressfull situation you "could care less" about recoil/noise ect. I was diddy bopping across the deer camp here awhile back when the stomach churning image of a cotton mouth came to view right in front of me, big and ugly...I had the clip of the 'ol .45 empited into him before it dawned on me that I had loaded up some ear piercing factory loads (UMC) These babies are LOUD, but due to the adralin rush I wasnt tring to cover my ears....I did massage 'em a bit after the fact though.
    ------------------
    United We Stand

    fredarmory
    Member
    Posts: 35
    (3/1/03 5:52:14 pm)
    Reply TZ 9mm
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    I had the TZ75 it never jammed.
    I do not like the trigger pull,
    however, and it is made too cheap,( in the beef
    department) for me!!
    But you can probably look past that for the 18 rd.s in the mag and the chamber!

    I went back to my 4in. Taurus!!
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2003
  2. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    I own a CZ75BD. NICE full-size 9mm. Very controllable, very reliable. The only FTF I've had is when my wife was shooting SA and didn't let up on the trigger enough for it to reset. A little training and she got it right from there on out.

    The same day she shot the CZ for the first time, I rented a Kimber 1911 from the range and shot 50 rounds of 230gr. Winchester BEB through it. I now want a 1911 real bad! (She told me that I might get it for Valentine's Day next year. We bought the CZ on Valentine's Day this year!) I've been tempted to purchase one of the Firestorms or Ballester Molinas, but am hoping we can save enough to purchase a Kimber or at least a Springfield next year. Also plan on renting the CZ97 from the range next time I go and check out how it fires. CZ makes some good guns and it is tempting to get another CZ.
  3. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Hi JohnK3........welcome to TFF.

    Always nice to see another 1911 fan here.
  4. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

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    Yes they...

    the cz's are a good gun, I have aCZ75 in 9mm that i think is a keeper...going up into the 1911 arena with one...would not be a problem for me either!...Welcome JohnK3...!...:cool:
  5. bigboom338

    bigboom338 New Member

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    Welcome to TFF JohnK3, I saw that you mentioned a Springfield in you post so as the owner of one I figured I would put my 2cents worth in. I love mine now that my sights are fixed and will more than likely buy another,but it will be a full size next time. I have a "loaded" micro compact right now.
  6. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Howdy JohnK3 and welcome to our forum. Hope to see lots of you around here. Many good people here to enjoy
  7. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    Thanks, guys! I'll be lurking around here and there for awhile.
  8. antediluvianist

    antediluvianist New Member

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    yup: .45 recoils harder

    I started this thread (.45's recoil versus 9mm.'s), and thanks to everybody for your inputs.

    After more experience in firing the .45 i have gotten used to it. My final impression is that although the .45's recoil is greater, it isn't much greater - maybe 20% as I feel it- and I would have more confidence coming after an intruder inside my house at 3am with the .45 than with the 9mm. The bullet has twice the mass, and it does look a lot bigger than the 9mm. slug.

    Thanks also for your suggestions about getting a shotgun. that's next on my list.

    As I said in my earlier email- and this sounds bad but it's true - in a developing country like mine it is really a good idea to completely eliminate the intruder - rather than just wound him - or he will eventually come after you and your family. Whenever he recovers/gets out of jail.

    OK, guys, shoot safe!
  9. evv59

    evv59 New Member

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    .45 or 9mm

    Hello everyone,
    I am new here as you can probaly tell from the user login, I goofed it.
    Anyway, my 2 cents. I have a 9 and a 45. The 9 is a glock 19 and the 45 is a Taurus pt145. Ok don't beat me up about the Taurus it has been good to me.
    But here are my thoughts. When I first fired the 45 I was at an outside range. The first shot was without hearing protection and I almost dropped the gun becasue of how loud it was. I can shoot my Dad's 1911 5inch barrel and not flinch. But noway could I do it with the Taurus. Here is my point, the 9mm doesn't effect my hearing as being too loud so I don't hesitate to fire it. But the 45 I think I might flinch knowing that when I would have the NEED to fire for protection would I miss, would I hesitate too long? It's a question you may need to ask yourself. I know if it came down to it we all say we wouldn't hesitate, just like me. But try firing a .45 twice in sucsession and be accurate knowing your ears might bleed afterward. So for me, forget the kick worry about the sound. We won't have time to put plugs in our ears if an emergency comes up. And think about it if it was your wife, who may or may not have fired that 45.
  10. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Well hello there evv59 and welcome to the forum. Glad you stopped by. I have never owned a Taurus or a Glock (opps, I lied, bought one in 40 S&W and sold it just as fast). However I do have an assortment of those slab sided old irons. Never had much use for a 9mm. Hope to see more of you around here.
    Last edited: May 28, 2003
  11. evv59

    evv59 New Member

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    Thanks

    I am now also a proud owner of a Colt Commander and becasue of this site I am learning more and more about what I can do to improve it. Thanks Again!
  12. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

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    Welcome to both evv59 and JohnK9. Hope you will join us often and take part in the always interesting discussions.

    I don't have a .45 but have shot a neighbor's Colt many times. I thought it would be hard to handle due to the proportionate larger numbers of its cartridge but find it only slightly harder on the recoil than my Browning Hi-Power Practicle. I have small hands much like my three daughters but have no problem with either weapon.

    Not much help, perhaps, but just a personal observation.
  13. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

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    I will answer the question you asked first, and then give you my opinion.
    Between a .45 and a 9mm, go with the .45. If you want less recoil, just have it ported.
    Now my opinion: There is a reason stage coaches and police cars carry shotguns. In a stressful situation, you don't have be a great shot to hit your target. The options are wide open for shotgun loads as well. Whether you load it with bird shot or buck shot, it is going to be lethal across a room. Heck, if you think the bad guys are going to be wearing body armor, just load with shot size "T" made of Tungsten....no more bad guys or body armor. When you take the plug out and put on an extension, you can get 10 shells in there. In a 3" 00buck 12 guage shell, there are about fifteen .33" (33 caliber) lead balls. 10 shells x 15 balls/shot = 150 projectiles. How many projectiles does that pistol throw at the bad guy? 16?
  14. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    I have fired a fair amount of both and would say the 9mm is more of a short, sharp crack where the .45acp is more of a push, a shove.

    Thus I wouldn't call it one or another from this shooters view, but different. :)
  15. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    Wow... That's an old thread.

    I miss some of these guys. :(

    I stand by my previous thought... It all depends on the frame.


    Crpdeth
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