One in the tube or rack the slide?

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by deinonychus75, Aug 19, 2006.

  1. deinonychus75

    deinonychus75 New Member

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    I will be the first to admit that the answer to this question is, no doubt, rather obvious to most. I imagine that most CCW holders carry their weapons ready to fire. I've had my CCW for about 7 months or so, I suppose. I started out with a KelTec P32 and just last week traded it in on a P3AT. Only reason I didn't keep the P32 also and traded it in is because money is an issue. The P32 was reliable, relatively accurate for a point-and-shoot pistol, and better than nothing. I just decided that since I can have a little more firepower in the same size package, why not. I've heard many good things about the P3AT, and the one I just acquired was NIB 2nd generation (so I'm hoping the kinks have been worked out by now). But, back to the whole reason I started this thread in the first place. I've debated with myself about carrying with a round in the tube and the magazine fully stacked, which would give me 7 rounds of .380 90 gr. Gold Dots ready to go. Just pull the trigger and start shooting, rather than have to rack the slide first. While locked and loaded sounds like the way to go, I guess the only reason I ask is because in the back of my mind there's always the safety concerns of having a bullet in the chamber. As long as you always remember that there's a round ready to leave the barrel, it shouldn't be a problem. However, as everyone is most likely already aware, the KelTec P3AT has no safety, which should also be fine since it's DOA - your safety is not pulling the trigger. The time it takes to rack the slide and chamber a round could be the difference between life and death. During a confrontation where deadly force my be required, and nerves will be frazzled, having to take the extra step to rack the slide and fumble with your weapon any more than you have to could be counter productive and could cost you your life. Once again, it just boils down to the safety issue. I think in my ramblings here, I've probably answered my own question. However, since I went through the effort to start this thread and type all of this out, I might as well post it just to see if there are any varying opinions on the issue. ;)
  2. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    Yup, you answered your own question all right.
    You carry a gun for ONE reason.....in case you NEED it.
    WAIT Mr. Robber/mugger, let me get my gun ready, just ain’t going to cut it.

    Your concern about safety is a GOOD thing. Safety should always be at the top of the list. If the gun you have, gives you reason to be concerned about carrying it loaded, get a different one. You need to feel safe with whatever you carry.
  3. deinonychus75

    deinonychus75 New Member

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    Thanks. Ideally, I'd like to own a compact .45 government style, because I really like the grip safety. It's more comforting to know that you have to be holding the gun for it to go off. But, those are considerably more money than the P3AT that I just picked up. However, the KelTec is a popular model, and probably won't lose that much value, so saving up and trading up, again, is not out of the question, just a matter of time, that's all. :cool:
  4. Jay

    Jay New Member

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    a ccw should be ready....... an empty chamber isn't ready.
  5. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Active Member

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    The hammer on the P3AT is not cocked until you pull the trigger. It is entirely safe. A 1911 in condition 1 is cocked. The safety does not block the hammer. It only blocks the sear. If the sear fails, the hammer falls, and the gun goes off. The grip safety only prevents the trigger from moving the sear.
    Bill
  6. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    Yea man it needs to be ready in an instant. And without a safety it should be a concern.
  7. deinonychus75

    deinonychus75 New Member

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    Thanks again to everyone who replied. That's a good point, Bill, about the 1911 style pistols in condition 1. Hadn't thought about that. I think I feel comfortable with the idea of carrying a round in the tube on the P3AT now. Because, as Bill mentioned, there is no tension on the hammer unless your finger is pulling the trigger.
  8. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Can anyone out there truthfully testify to a 'sear failure', on a 1911 pattern pistol?
    I own and shoot, or have owned, and shot, close to a hundred such pistols, some at the 40K mark, in rounds fired.
    I will allow that the 1911 requires a bit more 'coming up to speed', on the part of the operator, but the platform itself is faultless, in design!
    Jeff Cooper says "Keep the finger off the trigger, until the sights are on the target", the THIRD safety in this Browning design; my thumb sweeps the safety as I clear leather, but the ultimate safety is not in, but behind, the weapon!
    I'll bet my life that the sear, and hammer notches, are more enduring than the barrel.
    All my 1911's have a round in the pipe, and a full box, below; none, in 40+ years of shooting, have offered any problem.
    Just my .02.
  9. Ursus

    Ursus New Member

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    I prefer the one in the tube approach. I drive a lot, and would be too difficult to rack the slide while doing it. If someone is so concerned about safety, he should get a revolver, but as has been said Safety is between your ears, no between your fingers.
  10. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Active Member

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    Stash
    I'm not saying the 1911 is unsafe- just pointing out the relative safety of a D/A automatic. I have never seen sear failure in a 1911 that was properly aligned. My point is that it may be possible that a 1911 could fire if dropped on the cocked hammer, breaking the sear/hammer interface.
    Bill
  11. Your point is certainly not an invalid one, Bill, but it is impossible, totally and completely, to eliminate all chance of mishap without rendering a weapon no longer a useful device for self-defense. As Stash suggests, the key is good training, practice, and consistant maintainence.
  12. KyBlaster

    KyBlaster New Member

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    I carry a 1911 cocked and locked everyday.

    I don't see a problem with it.
  13. deinonychus75

    deinonychus75 New Member

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    I fell in love with a Kimber Ultra Carry a couple of months back at a local gun shop, but didn't have the $550 they were asking for it. It was used, but in excellent condition. The 1911 design has certainly stood the test of time, and I personally have been a fan of the design for quite some time. Just have a hard time affording the darn things! ;) Someday after I save my pennies. For now, the P3AT is sitting ready with a round in the tube in my front pocket, barely noticeable to myself or the rest of the world inside its size 2 Uncle Mike's pocket holster.
  14. ironsight65

    ironsight65 New Member

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    I would always carry a pistol that you feel comfortable carrying
    with a round ready to go. In a desperate situation you don't want
    to waste precious time chambering a round or worse yet, forgetting
    to do so.
  15. kings

    kings New Member

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    one thing to be considered is that you shouldn't have to think wether there is a round chambered or not, a gun should always be treated as such. and another, if your not comfortable carrying a gun that is truly loaded, then maybe you shouldn't carry at all. but thats just my opinion(which according to my wife is always wrong:D )

    cheers,

    kings
  16. cponproud

    cponproud New Member

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    :eek: Seems most of you carry the Flat guns, I carry a round gun .357 it's got 6 in the tubes all the time. Dbl.Act. so no real noise till it goes KAAA-BOOOOM, and I have to sqweeze the trigger for it to do that. ;)
  17. rmeron

    rmeron New Member

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    I carry an Astra A-75 in 45 ACP,when you decock it the hammer is on half.Thats the way I carry,one up the pipe and all it takes is a nice easy double action pull then it goes to single action.It's a very simple pistol.
  18. HiPowerKid

    HiPowerKid New Member

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    The P3AT was designed to be small enough to fit in a pocket and with a sufficiently long trigger pull as to not need a safety. It ain't got no light trigger single action about to go off at 3 and one-half pounds either. You have to intend to pull the trigger through its long arc of travel..

    Now since you carry it in a pocket holster as do I, it's going to take a little more time to get to it than a strong side holster, especially if you're sitting down in your car or at a table. A a plastic holster is made for it to be carried strong side. And, depending on the length of your pocket (as they do vary widely with the style of clothes) you may have a more difficult time of bringing it to bear on your target, you better have a round in the chamber because your other hand may be preoccupied, or worse, injured and you can't rack a slide one-handed without difficulty especially on a P3AT as the slide grooves are shallow and don't afford the best grip.

    You also need to make sure you clean that gun occasionally and make sure there's no lint in the barrel and around the hammer. In force on force drills you'll note that speed of the first shot on target is extremely important and if you're trying to be unobtrusive at any point by slowly drawing from your pocket holster, you'll lose any element of surprise when you have to "rack the slide" to chamber a round.

    Just make sure you rotate your rounds in the chamber at least weekly and give a good swab to your barrel, clean out any lint on the gun (pocket guns tend to collect lint), and make sure there's a round in the chamber and the mag has at least five in it before you leave the house. And don't forget your spare mag.

    The P3AT is also fairly accurate at short distances even though it's a close range gun. Mine doesn't like flat points and I use CorBon Powr-Balls to ensure reliable feeding since they're real close to FMJ in profile. CorBon also makes low flash powders to protect your night vision should you need to fire in low light situations. Hope this helps.
  19. VegasTech702

    VegasTech702 New Member

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    The only reason, I have in the past or would in the future carry without a round in the tube is because of a law prohibiting it (In, Utah without a CCW Permit). I don't know that I would want to carry a 1911 style pistol cocked and locked without a thumb break blocking the firing pin assembly. That is why both of the handguns I own and carry have external safeties that disconnect the trigger as well as decock the hammer and disconnect the firing pin safety. My Beretta 92FS and my Bersa Thunder .380. I feel confident with either weapon as well as my skills. Everyone has different taste and preference. Personally I chose the Bersa over the P3AT becuase of the safety, reputation, warranty, fit of the weapon and ability to have longer range sessions. Not to say the kel tec isn't at all worthy, it was made for pocket carry, not shooting for sport or fun, not meant to carry openly in a holster as I do with the Bersa.
  20. navyvet

    navyvet New Member

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    Well i guess it has pretty much been said already, one in the tube always for CCW. You must be ready at all times, in a gun fight fractions of seconds is the measure. Carry til I die:D
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