opinions upon browning and parker

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Ty Harden, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Ty Harden

    Ty Harden New Member

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    Hello all. Brand new here. Regarding D grade Parker Damascus double 12 and English stock 3 digit SN A5 Browning. Both manf'd around 1905. Spoken with Glen @ the Browning conservatory. Within first 1000 A5's made. He says the Parker is more collectable. I own both (inherited) and have for a number of years. No photos currently. I live in Florida and the guns are stored at a residence in Georgia. (No room for gun safe in a condo.) There were some of my photos posted several years ago showing serial numbers and grade marks on ShotgunWorld website. Just wondering, in your opinion, if the Parker is still worth more. (Can you tell I'm kinda rooting for the humpback?) Anyway, Thanks for the wealth of resources! What a phenomenal site! I will be spending plenty of time poking around. Thank you. Ty Harden.
  2. Ty Harden

    Ty Harden New Member

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    Rycher Post subject: Early production A5 question.Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:31 pm


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    Posts: 10 Hi. Been a couple of years since my last post. Y'all didn't have asmany cool options last time here, but I'm sure this is as helpful a site as always. I have a small request. I have an English stocked A5 with ser. no. 839. No 0's or other digits. I remember being told years ago about the A5's being sold in Europe exclusively during the 1st 10 years or so of production. I was kinda hoping someone could recommend a particularly useful site or owners group that can point me in the right direction as far as doing a little further documentation on the subject. I have clear digital photos showing the condition and SN. This is mostly for my own knowledge as well as plain old curiosity. Anyhow, it's really nice to see the site still as active and diverse as ever. Thanks in advance for any insight





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    Jeff Mull Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:40 pm


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    Location: Poolesville, Maryland It appears that you may have one of the first years production of Belgian A5's. Numbers from 1 through 4121 were imported to the US in 1903. After that importation ceased and Remington mad them for Browning under the Browning patents from then till 1923. FN did not stop making A5's in Belgium they just sold them overseas, not in the US. After the deal with Remington ran out FN resumed shipping A5's to the US.

    Post all the in markings on the gun and I for one would love to see digital pic's.

    For good information on your gun get a copy of the Shirley/Vanderlinden book on the Belgian A5's. You'll enjoy reading it.

    Jeff

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    Rycher Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:31 am


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    Posts: 10 The pictures have been downloaded within the Photo Gallery, under "Shotgun". I do have many more, though could load 5 this time. Thanks for the response.





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    rer Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:35 pm


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    Location: E. Washington I don't have any helpful information to add, but just wanted to comment that you have ONE AWESOME A5 there. I've never seen another one like it.
    Thanks, for posting the picts.
    Ross





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    EyeMissum Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:40 pm


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    Bonus Expires: 16 Jan 2012 Thats the first original straight stocked A5 I've ever seen. Nice gun............

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    Jeff Mull Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:51 pm


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    Location: Poolesville, Maryland What a sweet gun. When I saw the recoil pad I cringed....is that a Pachmayer White line pad????? Damn.

    The 1903 catalog lists the Trap Model, with checkering on the stock and foreend (which your gun has)........and it also had a "rubber butt". I believe that is was a hard vulcanized rubber plate, not anything like a recoil pad.

    The standard grade gun had no decorative engraving, yours is a heavily engraved. Is there engraving on the barrel also?

    Jeff

    Jeff

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    Rycher Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:17 am


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    Posts: 10 Wow. Glad to share. I inherited the gun several years ago from a 96 y.o. grandfather along with a D grade Parker Damascus barrelled double. I always thought the Parker would be the prize but apparently not. The pad is soft and supple, not hard. I will post some more in the future. Thanks a bunch for the compliments.





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    Jeff Mull Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:46 pm


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    Location: Poolesville, Maryland Parker D grade Damascus guns are way under valued. Have the barrel wall thickness measured and if they are in line you have a real classy shooter.....as long as you use loads that are appropriate to the era the gun was made. Is the Damascus pattern still vivid? Any case colors remaining? Let's see some more pics.

    I think that the Parker gun and the A5 represent best in class for thier categories. (apologies to the Fox, LC Smith, Ithaca and Lefever fans... If these are the best classic American made guns in the side by side and auto loader categories then all that is left is to pick a pump....I'd nominate either a Model 97 Winchester or it's progeny, the Model 12.

    Now lets see how many guys I pissed off....

    I'd like to hear more about the guy that left those two guns to you, it might make a fun article for the Parker Gun Collectors Assn periodical. (I'm not the only fan of the A5 in the Parker club) I'd bet the old guy chased upland game with the Parker and waterfowl with the A5....fill us in.

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    Rycher Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:45 pm


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    Posts: 10 Thanks Jeff. Actually Papa (W. G. Sellers of Laurel, MS) wasn't such a classic bird hunter. He was a coach and principal at some small prep schools in southern Mississippi. I know he bought the Parker in the 1920's at a pawn shop for 20 dollars or less. He mostly used it for deer hunting. They ran dogs back then there (and still do). It's a really fun and interactive method of deer hunting. He really loved to hear the dogs run. He also turkey hunted avidly, making his own calls and still has a local reputation as one of the best around. His hearing got bad in later years and he said he couldn't hear the gobblers. I don't really know where he came across the Browning. I spent many, many days with him on the farm (which we still own) and he is certainly the reason I am the outdoorsman I am today. I know he liked to hunt quail on horseback with Pointers and occasionally would wingshoot dove. He left me several other firearms that I would be hard pressed to part with. I have discussed with my sisters about the possibility of donating the Browning or Parker to a museum or the like if they would give him credit. I don't have any children to pass down to.
    I could go on but I guess there's no need. Unfortunately Papa passed away in 2002 at 96, a few months after my father died from leukemia. I've always kind of liked the way Papa went, especially after seeing Dad suffer. He was hunting by himself on his farm and got his truck hung up on a limb. Instead of just staying put, he walked out a couple of miles, within sight of the house even. He then had a heart attack crossing a cattle gap, his favorite Winchester 94 in hand. It was an old top-eject model that had a scope mounted on the side. I always laugh when I think of that odd contraption, although well over a hundred bucks (deer) wouldn't have thought it was funny... if they'd had a second chance.
    I have seen Parkergun.com a few years back and thought about ordering the letter they provide with the original history of each Parker gun, but havn't as of yet. I really believe that the A5 and the Parker were just guns in the case to Papa. He may have had some sense of historical value , but I never saw evidence of it. They were purely tools that he took good care of. Both of those guns are at my mom's home in Atlanta as my condo doesn't have room for the gun case. I live in Panama City Beach, Fl. and mostly fish down here. Next time up I will take some photos or have one of my sisters do it. I really appreciate the insight and kind words.
    Oh, by the way, I agree with your assessment of the "best" autoloaders, doubles and pumps. I knock more birds down with my first shotgun (Winchester Model 1300 Ranger) than the Sweet 16, Red Label, A5, Parker or SKB I also own combined. But then the others look better, huh? Anyway, thanks again.





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    Jeff Mull Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:09 pm


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    Location: Poolesville, Maryland I'm active in the PGCA. Parker Gun collectors Assn)

    The letters can be fun, they usually conform the guns original spes and it helps identify any changes made to it. Sometines the sales information includes the name of the original buyer, though it may be a hardware store or in the case of one of my Parkers it was Abacrombie and Fitch.

    Send me the serial number and note the barrel length and any markings on the water table by email. I'll see how much info I can get for you without sending for a letter. The more you know about the gun the more interest you may have in keeping it as a piece of family history..hell it's been in your family for 80 years or so. It should mean more to you than to any museum or collector.

    My email is jeff_mulliken@hotmail.com

    Kind regards,

    Jeff

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    Rycher Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:41 am


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    Posts: 10 Hi Jeff. I went to the Parker site. Thanks for posting for me there! I went there to retrieve some post I made there when I lived in Atlanta that had my Parker gun info, as I explained that gun is in Atlanta in my safe. I live in PCB, Fl. Evidently I have forgotten my password for the Parker site and can't retrieve my old posts to get your requested info. I will try to get someone to get in the safe and take photos and records, but it will take me a while. I did get info via the SN on the (awesome) Parkergun.org site, but it was 2-3 years ago. If I can remember my password I will retrieve my old posts there. Trust me, everything I've shared is honest and I would love insight on that old piece too! Thanks for all your help and interest. I appreciate it, my friend. Take care.





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    Rycher Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:32 pm


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    Posts: 10 I spoke with Vallene at the Browing historical dept. in Utah today. She is the (very helpful and friendly) secretary for the official Browning historian, Glen. She came here and read the posts and looked at the photos and is putting together some things for Glen to look at. I was going to mention that were some great observations and discussion about safety placement and dates of mechanical changes and advancements at the www.parkergun.org site that some of you may be interested in. General discussion forum topic "nice inheritance", I believe. Thanks Jeff. I will certainly share what is found and thanks to all for getting the ball rolling. I knew I liked this place.





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    Rycher Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:58 pm


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    Posts: 10 That was fast. I guess this will wrap this topic up. I just got a call from Glen. Quite an honor, personally. He said there were no records of the first shipment of guns at the first of the century. He said the Browning historical society had several, and he had about 10. He also mentioned that a contest was held years ago to find who had the earliest SN and they came up with no. 6. Since then they had located no. 1 and purchased it ("not from private hands"). He did say he saw the photos and had not seen one with as much engraving as mine. Anyway, we had a nice conversation and, yes, I did store his phone no. in my cell phone. He said to mention that if I or anyone else had any early production items to call them first before making any transactions. Overall, a very classy individual and response as one would expect from Browning.





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    MarlandS Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:11 pm


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    Bonus Expires: 16 Jan 2012 Rycher, interesting gun and topic. Several years back we had a member here with an A-5 from the same era as yours, I want to say his serial number was in the 300's but very well could be wrong, I'll look up his old posts and see if I can find it, now I'M curious.. LOL.

    Some really cool guns come through these virtual doors.

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    kevin.303 Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:58 pm


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    Location: Winnipeg so when did they start making them with the magazine cut off? and really what purpose does this serve on a sporting gun?i can see it's use on a military rifle, but a 12 gauge bird gun??





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    Jeff Mull Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:51 pm


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    Location: Poolesville, Maryland Kevin,

    The magazine cut off was added to Belgian manufactured guns in 1909. It was a very useful modification for at least two reasons that come to mind (and for which I have used it).

    1) Your duck hunting with #4 duck loads in the chamber and magazine, geese see the rig and make a move toward the blind. Using the mag cut off you can pull the duck load out of the chamber and put a goose load in very quickly. Without this option you have to cycle the action three times dumping the live shells on the ground then start loading goose loads. Try emptying and reloading in a hurry in a layout boat or blind like mine with 6" of water in it! Next time you'll use the mag cut off and have one good shell in place.

    2) You can also use it for crossing a fence or othe obstacles with a "safe gun" by using the mag cut off and cycling the action to empty the chamber and lock it open. This allows you to pass the gun under a fence or lay it down without cycling the action 3 times etc etc etc... You only have to reload the one shell, close the action and release the cut off to be back in business.

    Jeff

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    kevin.303 Post subject: Re: Early production A5 question.Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:01 pm


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    Location: Winnipeg i see, i guess it does make sense. i think the only flaw with the A5 is that to unload it you have to chamber the ammo





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  3. Ty Harden

    Ty Harden New Member

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    This is a copy of a thread that had photos on shotgunworld. If I would've had to bet on if I remembered my log in (Rycher) and password from 6-7 years ago I would've lost my truck. Home. Farm. Condo. Wife. (okay, maybe not her) Anyway. I did remember. Thanks y'all.
  4. Ty Harden

    Ty Harden New Member

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    Spectacular resource site you have here. I'm so happy to discover it and the devotion of your members! Thank you!
  5. Ty Harden

    Ty Harden New Member

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    Apparently, no opinions on these. I do understand photos are helpful. Let's say both are 50%. Parker D grade or one of the first 1000 A-5's?
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