paper cartridges for my 1860 Army

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Guest

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    polishshooter
    Registered User
    Posts: 19
    (3/25/01 3:14:37 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del All paper cartridges for my 1860 Army
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    Anybody "roll their own" paper for their BP revolvers? I want to try....give me some loads and pointers if you have them.

    I'm using up some 200gr. H&G 68 SWC lead that I have left over from my .45 ACP IPSC days in my Traditions 1860 with 25gr FFFg. Pretty decent groups, but really slow to reload getting that flat point to seat straight with the concave loading lever.

    I don't cast yet (although I'm saving the 50# lead weight from my stock car for that purpose.) What do I have to buy at Friendship this spring?

    Can you use cigarette papers? How do they last in a pouch?

    I figure 200gr with 25 grain FFFg is pushing light .44 Special loads, and if HCI and the liberals has their way these may be the only defensive handguns we are allowed....

    shooter45 us
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 135
    (3/26/01 9:20:21 am)
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    Polishshooter, years ago on the pistol range I saw a man using brown paper.Don't know what type. I'm sure anyone at Friendship will tell you. Great bunch of people. I'm thinking of going this year, after a 20 yr. absence.

    polishshooter
    Moderator
    Posts: 25
    (3/26/01 11:21:29 am)
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    Let me know when you go, maybe we can meet, although it's a big place...

    I usually go the first weekend in the Spring, found some great deals in the past then, on manufacturer's row.

    I used to belong to the NMLRA in the past and was pretty much into BP, but now I find myself wandering the Flea Market more...I've bought as many conventional guns there as I have BP since I started going. And it's the one "show" my wife likes to go to with me. At least you KNOW you are gonna see "beanies" in the Flea Market part!

    I live about 1 1/2 hours away...


    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 85
    (3/26/01 4:04:26 pm)
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    Polish Shooter, I've made paper Catridges but I used the kit from Dixie, after A little practice, it's surprisingly fast and easy, although I admit, I've only made R.B. Catridges,

    polishshooter
    Moderator
    Posts: 38
    (3/26/01 9:40:45 pm)
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    R.B.? Round ball? I thought you had to use conicals for revolver cartridges...what do you do, tie them off like a Musket charge?

    You know, I once saw cast 220 grain round nose .45 ACP bullets for sale at a place I used to get my 200 gr H&Gs.

    I wonder if they would work for cartridges in my Traditions...they should be cheaper by the 1000 than Hornady or Speer specially made .44 revolver conicals by the 100... .452 lead works fine in my cylinder and bore...

    I found an article in an old Handloaders Digest where a guy used .45 ACP jacketed bullets in his BP revolver with good results. While I probably wouldn't try it, he used FFFFg instead of FFFg and got better velocity, and bigger charges, as well as cleaner burn, with comparable volume to the FFFg. Has anybody used FFFFg behind lead in a revolver?

    I have a pound of FFFFg I use for priming in my flintlock, it's lasted forever, I may give it a try. The Tradition may not be as strong as the Walker he used, but it seems strong enough...what will pressures be like do you think?

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 86
    (3/27/01 3:09:48 am)
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    I would not use 4Fg in any revolver larger than the.31calibre, as the pressure is radical in larger capacity chambers, and like the story of "English Bob" Gene Hackman tells in the Unforgiven, when He shoots it out with The man known as "Two Gun", You don't have time for that hand to grow back,
    I just glue the paper cylinders to the round balls, and fill with powder and fold the bottoms, same as conical,I used the paper glue from Elmers, like they give kids in school, worked great,

    polishshooter
    Moderator
    Posts: 45
    (3/27/01 8:46:27 am)
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    Yeah, I hear you. He wasn't trying to get more velocity or power, it's just that the bigger ACP bullets take up so much space in the cylinder, that capacity with FFFg is limited. When I use my 200gr SWC, it's a tight fit to get them seated on top of the 25 grain charge. I figured if I went to the 220, I'd be reducing the charge even more so the 4F would get me back up. You're probably right, the guy was using jacketed, not lead, and that Traditions was STILL made in Spain after all,and probably isn't all THAT strong, knowing what other junk they make there. (How'd you like that little dig at Bob? Now we'll see if he shoots BP! )

    Edited by: polishshooter at: 3/27/01 8:50:09 am

    polishshooter
    Moderator
    Posts: 46
    (3/27/01 9:02:28 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: paper cartridges for my 1860 Army
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    Thinking about it, does that Elmer's glue or paper glue grip the paper to the ball OK? I've also read in Dixie's catalogue that cigarrette papers work.

    Do the paper cartridges hold up in a cartridge pouch, or to normal handling?

    I've read stories from the Civil war that especially mounted men had trouble with paper cartridges for revolvers as well as rifles and carbines "separating" when they got jiggled a bit, and when they needed them, reaching into the pouch and finding loose powder and bullets in a mess.

    I want to experiment with them, and then have some loaded and stored "in case."

    But then the thought of an "IPSC" "Speed Reload" with a percussion revolver is kind of humorous to contemplate.

    I've heard lots of guys carried spare loaded cylinders, but that can't be the answer either. You'd either have to have the wedge so loose to remove the barrel without tools accuracy would HAVE to suffer, and then I only have two hands, to handle (juggle?) the 4 parts....I can't see that as viable under pressure...Maybe that's why there were so many "2 gun" (or 3, or even 4 gun!)men back then.

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 87
    (3/27/01 7:05:22 pm)
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    I know from using 4fg in small bore revolvers, that those rascals pop! 15Gr.s in A pocket model replica is exciting, as for loose catridges/powder in Ctg. Pouches, I would say the problem probably stemmed from the long rough transport from factory to end user, on the Ctg.s, than jostling them in pouch, carrying extra cylinders for quick reloads works well with the Rem.s
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