Percussion revolver ID please?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Dave1975, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. Dave1975

    Dave1975 New Member

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    Hello there,

    As this is my first entry on this forum, let me briefly introduce myself. My name is Dave and I live in Belgium. Ever since I was a kid I was interested in historical fire arms, which coincides with my passion for history in general.

    You can imagine my excitement when I dug up the remains of a revolver when working in my garden a while ago. Around these parts it's not unusual to come across this stuff when you start digging, but normally it's only WWI/WWII items that surface. You wouldn't expect what appears to have been a percussion revolver.

    As don't have a lot of knowledge on this kind of fire arm, and I was unable to identify it using what is available on the net, I thought I would come here and ask the pro's for help :).

    Attached you can see some pics I took from various angles. In case you need any from other angles, let me know.

    The wooden part fell apart completely when I lifted the weapon, and you can see that also several metal parts are missing.

    After getting rid of some of the rust I was able to see some markings on top of the barrel. It clearly shows the letters "ER" and then what appears to be a number, but I can't tell for sure, as the surface is pretty damaged.

    If anybody here would be able to shed some light on the type of this revolver, I would appreciate it!

    best regards
    Dave

    Attached Files:

  2. Dave1975

    Dave1975 New Member

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  3. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Active Member

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    Hello Dave,
    It appears to be a Remington Model 1958 New Army Revolver--probably .36 or .44 cal. As you pointed out, it is missing quite a few parts, which must have been missing when it was discarded or lost. For example, the triggerguard was brass and would not have rusted away. Part of the cylinder pin appears to be missing--it can be removed when the loading lever (also missing) is lowered. The serial number is probably long gone--it would be on the underside of the barrel, on the side of the grip frame, and also stamped on the tang of the triggerguard where it slipped into the frame.
  4. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    If the caliber is .44 (11.2mm), with a 8 inch (20.3cm) barrel, it is the New Model Army revolver; if it is .36 caliber (9.1mm), with a 7 3/8 inch (18.7cm) barrel, it is the New Model Navy revolver.

    The guns are about identical except for size, which is why I have provided this information.

    Jim
  5. reinhard

    reinhard Member

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    hoi Dave,in welk deel van Belgie woon je?
  6. Dave1975

    Dave1975 New Member

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    thanks for confirming this Buffalochip. I will try to remove some more rust here and there without causing even more damage, just to see if I can surface any further indications. I'm not planning on restauring the piece, just want to keep it as is, but knowing the details is of course interesting.

    @Jim: the barrel length is 20,3 cm, which would indeed mean it's the army model.
    @Reinhart: ik woon in de buurt van Antwerpen
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    It would bring a good price if you said it was left behind by Wellington after the battle of Waterloo.

    Jim
  8. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Active Member

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    I agree with Jim, if you can prove it was at the Battle of Waterloo, it would be priceless--particularly since that battle took place decades before this gun was made :)

    Most likely, it had been demoted to some little boy's play toy that was eventually lost.
  9. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Heres a story for you

    WW1 shortage of Webly revolvers cause police to hand over their issue weapons to support the effort , Revolvers in ported from America and bonded and failed many years before ( dont remember the full details sorry) meaning imported but did not pay the taxes , where taken out of bond and issued to Police stations ( cops did not carry gun's in the UK then ) later in WW1 cops went to the war to help direct traffic and for the first time in centuries carried their side arms ..

    1/2 the cops that went to the front did not come home

    the pistol where black powder revolvers from America , no other description was there , it was in the historical collection for some cops of the UK of the period

    I am not saying this is a cops gun, but in war theres a lot of stories and many crazy but the stories are real we just dont know them all
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  10. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Active Member

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    This gun was woefully obsolete by the time WW1 rolled around. I seriously doubt coppers would be outfitted with percussion pistols--there is a bit of a learning curve to loading them and they are single action. An old friend (now deceased) said he remembers going to the local Farmers Market in Southern Maryland in the early 1900s where there was a bushel basket of old civil war pistols for 25 cents each. Many of these old guns probably ended up as child's play guns.
  11. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Arh! you forget UK gun control and the purges ... A shot gun was a status symbol at the time so hand guns especially was in short supply and why the UK restamped 1911's later as well as others


    but 600 where pulled from the only place they had em , honest i'll find the article , blew my mind too .. remember this was a political decision .. no knowledge of weapons assumed , this was england and stuff up's like this happens, i just laugh.

    remember england invaded one of its own islands ( a rumour one of the channel islands had succeded to france )

    i wrote too much , i was saying theres a million ways the thing could be there and some are funny ( what dumb anti gun politic does to folks .. )
  12. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    WWI? Hardly. But thousands of American Civil War vintage arms did go to Europe in the Franco-Prussian war, and I have no doubt some revolvers were among them. Even if no battles were fought in the area where the gun was found, it could have been taken home by a combatant or sold surplus and then later stolen or lost.

    It could even be a reproduction or an uncompleted "kit gun" of much more recent times, lost or discarded in frustration when the owner couldn't put it together. In some acid soils a gun buried 10 years will look like it has been in the ground for centuries.

    Buffalochip, I keep being disappointed. I recently found out that the M1 carbine I thought was carried by US Grant at Gettysburg might be wrong since Grant wasn't at Gettysburg. Maybe it belonged to Meade.

    Jim
  13. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Active Member

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    Jim--now that seems plausible and if Meade owned it, I suspect it wasn't fired much.
  14. Dave1975

    Dave1975 New Member

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    Thanks for your interesting input, many stories could be behind the whereabouts of these weapons indeed :).

    Meanwhile I have managed to gently remove some more of the rust, and serial number and other markings are beginning to show up. As soon as I have found some consistancy there, I'll post the info here.

    The other day I spent some time talking to one of my neighbours, who must be at least 85, and I mentioned to him my findings. He brought up another theory, stating that according to him, the first owner of our house might have had the revolver in his possesion in the '30's, but burried it when the Germans occupied Belgium in 1940, to prevent them finding the weapon which could get him into trouble. After the war it was all forgotten about, as people had more important things on their mind. Seems plausible to me as well, although it doesn't explain how the weapon ended up here in Belgium.

    The theory about the Franco-Prussian war might be an idea as well. A number of Belgians fought in that war as well, mostly in the French foreign legion.

    Anyways, I guess this will always stay a mistery.
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