Possible FR8 ammo issues with comm. .308.

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by Laufer, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. Laufer

    Laufer New Member

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    TRAP55: Thanks for the photos.

    Jim K: Those photos combined with your descriptions are educational, without a doubt.
    Possibly 150,000 psi did that damage?

    Newspapers scare people for no reason-except sensationalism-regarding the industry in which I work.
    Regarding gun issues, the frequent and intentional distortions by many newspapers seems only to either sell more bird cage paper, or further their ignorant political agendas.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  2. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    I've seen that yellow powder stain before too , we had a recall on it here in a big way,
    a few rifles gone that way , i cant say if any where a argy ...
    we think the paki's used cannon powder or something , and when they realised, dumped it on the the asian market instead of redoing it , i dunno the facts , i wont use paki or indian ammo period

    i dunno if its related or not but throwing in after seeing the pic's
  3. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    Jim K., again your assessment of the photos is right on. We don't know the source of the photos or the political agenda behind them. I find it hard to believe that an ordinary .308 round would cause that much damage to a rifle even if it did fire out of battery. The oval vent hole (shown in the pictures) on the left side of the receiver ring was added to the 1916's specifically for the purpose of releasing gas overpressure from the chamber. Obviously, something went terribly wrong in this case.

    As stated above, Samco Arm's in Miami hired a company to do some testing a number of years ago on .308's in the Spanish Mausers that included destructive testing using rounds designed to create massive overpressure and destroy the weapon. They wanted to see at what pressure the rifles would have catastrophic failure. For all we know, these pictures were taken after intentionally overloading the weapon to create the failure shown.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  4. TRAP55

    TRAP55 New Member

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    This wasn't intentional. The bolt wasn't opened after the mishap, that's where it was blown back and jammed to, and the yellow residue is more like sulfur powder, not brass.
    Whatever caused it, like Jim said, produced a helluva lot more pressure than that Mauser could handle!
    In my 56 yrs, just to name a few I've seen right next to me:
    94 Winchester, full mag of handloads, FMJ .308 bullets....set off every round in the tube..........I caught shrapnel from the one!
    Pre 64 Model 70 in .270, reload full of suspected pistol powder.
    Belgian Damascus 12ga with high base smokeless, a piece of the barrel nicked my shooting glasses 20ft away.
    12ga Browning A-5 with a mud plugged barrel banana peel............in the same duck blind.
    But I've never seen anything like that FR-7.
  5. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    That FR-7 damage is not very unusual in the situation where a case head lets go. The gas is trapped in the receiver ring and that is the result, whether the rifle is an FR-7 or something else. No small gas escape port just cannot handle that much gas all at once. The unusual thing here is the widespread brass flash, indicating that the case head didn't just burst, but actually melted under intense pressure. The only rifle I can think of that would take that would be a Remington 700 or something like it, and even that rifle would have an expanded bolt nose, ruining the bolt.

    Since the source of the picture is not known, the idea that it might have come from those tests is a possibility. Pictures tend to get passed around on the wonderful "net" and misidentified or misused, often deliberately in promotion of an agenda.*

    I have heard many versions of the "explosive" in the cartridge story, done supposedly by both sides in Vietnam. I have heard that Germans sabotaged ammunition for the American market out of revenge for WWII - in 1998!! And on, and on. I take all that with a large grain of salt, in this case because a true high explosive would not leave much of the rifle.

    Another large salt grain needs to be used anytime someone claims that a blown gun was fired with factory ammo. No one wants to admit to getting the Lee dipper in the wrong powder, especially since suing a cartridge company is more profitable than 'fessing up to blowing your own gun.

    Jim

    *I completely deny... And furthermore, I don't have shorts that color.

    JK
  6. warriflefan

    warriflefan New Member

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    I think that it should be pointed out that a large number of military rifles will fail the NO-GO gauge test but easily pass the field gauge test.
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