possibly a silly question about C&R

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by Nietz, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. Nietz

    Nietz New Member

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    New guy chiming in, I have my C&R otw (applied anyway) now when it gets here does every firearm that you own have to be logged into the bound book?(meaning things that I may own now) or just the ones that are aquired under the C&R?

    also lets say I were to buy a pistol or rifle that are not C&R but I do have a C&R do those have to be logged in as well? or are they business as usual? just a few newbie questions that I want to get out of the way before the 03 gets here, I thank you in advance for any help or knowledge on this

    Nietz
  2. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    I remember asking the same thing when I got mine, so it's NOT a "silly question....";)

    Your privately owned "non-CR" guns do NOT have to be logged...just like any "non-CR" guns you buy AFTER you get it....the CR gives you no advantage over any non licensee when buying non-CR guns, (except maybe quicker NICS!:p )

    You technically have to log only guns bought "via" the CR.....

    However, the "gray areas" are any CR qualified guns you owned PRIOR to getting the CRFFL (probably not) as well as any CR guns you bought via 4473, like at a retail store that didn't take your FFL because they didn't understand it....like the few I bought at Dunham's....(PROBABLY!)

    But the issue might be if you SELL them....you'd have to follow the rules to sell them just like any of your other CRs....

    The way I figure it, why take the chance? Log them, just put down on the log "via 4473," or "previously owned...."
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  3. Nietz

    Nietz New Member

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    Thanks for the info :) I assumed it was better to be safe and log Grandpaws Springfield 1903A3, Garand and FN-49 that I inherited in there just wasn't sure if it was a must. I am looking forward to the 03 and have a short shopping list all set to go! heh I am just wondering if I should prepare for the divorce papers now or just wait until the wife sees the bank statement :D


    Nietz
  4. SfcMac

    SfcMac New Member

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    NIETZ THEY ARE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT IT.I'VE HAD MINE A LITTLE WHILE, AND THEY WILL COME TO SEE YOU ONCE A YEAR.GET A BOUND BOOK,AND RECORD EVERY TRANSACTION,BE IT SALE BUY OR TRADE.I WOULD ALSO MAKE A RECORD OF YOUR PRIVATE COLLECTION, I MEAN THE STUFF YOU HAD BEFORE YOU GOT THE LICENSE.IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS CALL THE ATF,AND THEY WILL EXPLAIN IT TO YOU..THEY HAVE A BOOK ASK FOR IT.IT TELLS YOU EVERYTHING LOTS OF LUCK PAUL M
  5. polishshooter

    polishshooter Active Member

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    SFC, where do you live? I am VERY surprised by the fact they "check you every year."

    I've had my CRFFL since 2000, have renewed twice, and have never been "visited," or even asked to bring the book to them, (which I understand is a CRFFLs "choice" for the "inspection," not like a regular FFL....)

    And I have even had to report a stolen CR gun to the ATF during my first 3 years, and get all the paperwork done on that, which was a hassle, and EXPECTED to be checked after that, but still haven't been.....
  6. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    I had an 01 license for three years and have had my C&R for six years. No one from the ATF has visited me either. You only have to list the items you buy with the C&R in your bound book!
  7. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    I had an FFL for several years (in CA) and the BATF did visit me and suggested I surrender my FFL. The problem was my intent had been to sell out of my house which I clearly revealed in my application. The City would not talk to me until I had the FFL then they denied me a business license for my residence. So I was stuck with an FFL and no way to sell guns. So I bought lots of guns for me at wholesale prices. (It was tough!)

    The BATF did not like that I was not doing a business but understood my problem. They "suggested" I surrender my license which I did. Since I had built a very good inexpensive collection off the FFL, I won!

    The log book is a trace aid for the BATF. They want to be able to follow a gun from owner to owner. Your current correctly obtained collection, either C&R or modern, is of no concern to the BATF for a C&R dealer. It is only the C&R transactions done with the license that they care about for the log book, in my experience. But......you had better make sure all your guns, before, during and after your C&R FFL are documented. They have the right to inspect your log book and your collection. If they find a problem that appears illegal they might just report you to the state or another federal agency for legal action. For that reason I would suggest totally cataloging your collection, gather and file all documentation for existing or modern guns, and seperating the C&R collection into its own safe. If you have any guns that are questionable remove them from your premisses before the BATF gets there (remember they can do unannounced inspections).

    As in any situation the laws as written are often distorted to use against you in a court of law so you can only help yourself by predicting bad situations and guarding against them. FFL's allow searches of your premisses without a search warrant so be prepared by having everything on the up and up. The Government is rarely compasionate or understanding or see anything but black and white when it comes to the law.

    LDBennett

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