Pressure Signs.....

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by AR guy, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. AR guy

    AR guy Member

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    LDB, So what your saying is with most 9mm's like mine I should stay between 2/3 and and max, just because the gun needs more power to cycle good. Ok that sounds good, but then would the powder have a factor in this? ( slow burn/ fast burn ). In some samples I made I used TG powder and my other samples I used WSF. Would it be safe to say that my TG is good because its on the fast/hot side and the WSF should be loaded more to the max load.
  2. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    AR guy said:

    "Would it be safe to say that my TG is good because its on the fast/hot side and the WSF should be loaded more to the max load."

    Not necessarily.

    In my opinion you should be loading to the mid range of the load data to assure the gun will operate. It matters not whether the powder is fast or slow within the published data. Most manual data is tested to assure most all guns operate, even at the starting loads. But new guns have lots of friction and strong springs and may not operate with starting loads. Some never will. If you stay in the middle of the data you can be pretty sure the gun will operate correctly. Just don't load up hundreds and hundreds at any level until you are sure they fully operate the gun and are reasonably accurate. Never exceed the max load levels.

    We choose powder based on performance and maybe costs. With fast powders you use less and consequently you can get more shots per powder canister. I use W231 almost exclusively because it uses a reasonable amount (tiny powder charges as with Bullseye are more affected by 1/10 grain load variations which are just about the accuracy limit on measuring powder loads) and because I can use it in almost any pistol cartridge and because I can get more loads out of a powder canister. I choose to not use slower powders because of the economics. To be perfectly frank if I compared powders shooting un-rested I would find that any powder is more accurate than my shooting ability especially at my age. So why not save a penny or two. Also my Dillion powder measure likes ball or flattened ball powders better than flake or extruded powders.

    Now if it is power I'm after for magnum cartridges then I use IMR4227 or 2400 or AA #9, all very slow powders.

    LDBennett
  3. AR guy

    AR guy Member

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    Ok well understood. I will stay and keep my loads between start and max. And that's exactly why I bought the TG it was cheaper than most I saw. And I was also thinking about how much I could get out of a lbs. 7000 grains in a lbs so that's a lot of rounds. But back to the main question ok I got it and understand everything you said. Thanks. Honestly I'm glad you guys are here to help and answer questions or concerns and to stop us from doing something stupid that we might do. It's always good to have a good second opinion... Just my thought anyway.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  4. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

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    One of the Speer manuals had a short article on primer flattening, in short, loads at 20% OVER max were not visually different than 20% BELOW max in primer flattening.
    So the tea leaf analogy is spot on, IMO.
  5. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    Personally, I do not like super fast powders like TiteGroup in high pressure rounds like the 9mm and 40 S&W. TG is a very fast powder that burns hot and has a tendency to get "squirrelly" (technical term) when loaded to the upper end of the scale in these high pressure rounds.

    The window from "start" to "max" is very small with TG. Take the 9mm 125gr bullet for example. Hodgdon lists a "start" charge of 4.1gr and a "Max" charge of 4.4gr. That's a measly .3gr from start to max. Not enough wiggle room in my book.

    Most powder dispensers are at best accurate to +/- .1 grain. With this in mind, a desired charge of 4.2gr of TG can yield ammo from Min to Max all in the same ammo box. Couple this with the fact that TG does not play nice when pushed hard and you have a potential problem before you even start.

    Not only that a double charge of TG in a 9mm case will be very difficult to spot. That would certainly ruin your day.

    Do the Google on TG and KB's in the 40. You may find that it was the powder used in the majority of KB's.
  6. AR guy

    AR guy Member

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    If I dont like what i feel with the TG powder, whats a good decently priced powder for the 9mm. I do have WSF also it was priced good at $24 a lb. a bit more than TG but cheaper than alot. So if i dont like the TG ill save it for when i need it. I did work some samples up with WSF ill be tasting both Sat.
  7. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Excessive pressure signs. I am taking this right out of the 8th edition Hornady manual (page 71)

    1. An increase in case head expansion as measured by a very accurate micrometer.

    2. Hard or sticky extraction from the chamber of the firearm.

    3. Flattened primers (the rounded edges of the primer are now flattened, filling the gap between primer and case head.)

    4. Cratered primers (primer cap material flowing into the firing pin hole.)

    5. Ejector marks on the case head.

    6. Sooty gas leakage around the primer.

    7. Enlarged primer pockets - in the worst cases with the primer blown loose.
  8. AR guy

    AR guy Member

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    Any of those signs and STOP dont go further. Ill definetly be looking. Thanks.
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