preventing copper fouling

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by FJF0311, May 19, 2008.

  1. FJF0311

    FJF0311 New Member

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    Just a "Heads up" I've been tumbling my bullets with powdered tungsten. It is a dry lubricant, like moly, but dose not build up in your barrel. The theory is, that tungsten cannot stick to itself. I do know this, after a few patches with bore solvent, the barrel of my M1A supermatch is clean, and no sign of copper fouling. Nor have I seen any build up of the tungsten. I tumble my gas piston as well. It takes much longer to carbon up now.
  2. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered the hardness of tungsten and what it is doing to the barrel as the bullet pushes it along the barrel? I don't know if tungsten is harder than steel or not, but I do know that they use tungsten carbide to coat machining tools to make them harder to resist wear.

    Are you sure you want to put an unknown foreign substance in your very expensive rifle's barrel? Have you any collaborating information that it is safe to do so?

    I sure would like to hear and see information that says it is OK to do so before I do as you suggest. What can you offer as proof that it is OK?

    LDBennett
  3. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    LD,
    It's not powdered tungsten, the official name is tungsten disulfide...like moly disulfide.

    We use tungsten disulfide dry lube at work. According to our MSDS sheets, it's got a rockwell hardness of C30. If I remember right, moly disulfide has a rockwell of C50...which makes the moly lube a "harder" substance than the tungsten disulfide lube.

    Technical stuff out of the way, I hadn't ever thought of trying it to lube bullets with it...but then I haven't gotten caught up in the moly lubed bullets fad yet either. Might be a viable alternative but I'd prefer to have someone else be the guinea pig. :D
  4. FJF0311

    FJF0311 New Member

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    I had read other posts, about the pain it is cleaning out copper fouling. I too, have spent way to much time cleaning. When I used to shoot service rifle matches regualy, I wish I had known about this stuff. I believe I spent as much time pushing patches, as I did shooting. Since I don't shoot competition any more, I only have about 500-600 RDS. on this barrel, so I can't comment on the proposed increased barrel life.

    I offered this as a "Heads up", for you benefit. It's cheap, easy to do, and makes cleaning a breeze. do your own research, and make up your own mind.

    I'm just trying to share what works for me, for the benefit of the shooting community
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    FJF0311:

    I was not attacking the concept but only posing questions as a devil's advocate and to get more information. I, as bindernut, "prefer to have someone else be the guinea pig". I appreciate your bringing this to our attention. Maybe someone else is actively using it too (???) and will comment to satisfy my questions about its use.

    I tried moly bullets but found the cleaning not necessarily easier as black from the moly hid any signs of copper fouling. I don't know if it helped prevent copper fouling or just hid it in the black that made virtually every patch that went thorugh the barrel turn out black. Gave up on moly. But if the tungsten disulfide was clear and actually helped to keep copper fouling from forming maybe there is something to it.

    But why has no one else not thought of this before? Are their some negatives to using it?

    LDBennett
  6. FJF0311

    FJF0311 New Member

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    I appreciate all criticism. thought this we learn. If I seam Short in my response, It's because I am a terrible typist. I did not take your response as a attack. I hope others will respond. until then I will continue to use it, and report any findings.

    PS do not use in direct gas impingement, like the AR. It blows into the chamber, thru the bolt, possibly creating higher than normal pressure on the bolt face, if it prevents the brass from gripping the chamber walls at ignition.
  7. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    The WS2 (tungsten disulfide) lube is kinda grey/black pretty much like MoS2. I don't think there are any clear dry lubes that act the same as these two do. So, you'll probably have the same black patches when cleaning.

    WS2 will "bond itself" into the base metal it's applied to (like moly does) so I'm guessing that it will work about the same as moly lube does. Once you've got the initial buildup, it doesn't really keep piling up on itself, but the coating does wear off after a while and you need to reapply it (when used as a machine tool coating that is...I'm guessing it'll act similarly in a rifle barrel).
  8. FJF0311

    FJF0311 New Member

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    This is true, the first few patches do come out gray/black. Then they come out clean. I used sweets, afterward to check for copper, none shown. shot 20 non coated after cleaning , found copper. That is what led me to believe that it cleans out with basic cleaning. Now all I use is shooters choice, then a light wipe of oil. A 88 rd. match, and less that a dozen patches. Google it, I'm sure you can find some one more eloquent and proficient at typing. I love to read the posts on here, but find using a keyboard frustrating.
  9. Don Buckbee

    Don Buckbee New Member

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    The best way to prevent copper fouling is to lap the barrel. Custom barrels that are lapped by the maker don't foul nearly as much as barrels that are unlapped. I lap all of my barrels that aren't lapped when I get them.

    Con
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