Primers

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by bassn7, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. bassn7

    bassn7 New Member

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    I have gotten a 22-250 this faLL AND ALL i COULD GET WERE LR MAGNUM Primers lately, A guy told me not too shoot this gun with mag primer is he right? I have been loading cci standard LR primers, 38 gr of H380 under a 52 gr hpbt sierra bullet it's shooting a 1" group at 200 yrds held on bench, oh gun is a savage mod 12 varmit w accutrigger. Thanks Stan
  2. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    Welcome

    I think it is best to use whatever is listed in your reloading data book. I would not deviate form it.

    I love that rifle. I have one in 308. With hornady light mags i can shoot 165gr bullets at 3069fps. Heavy rifle but man what a tac driver.
  3. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    According to Sierra you are pretty close to a MAX load with regular primers. If you are forced to use those magnum primers (why not just put them on the shelf and save them for later use on a different cartridge?) then start at the starting load and develop a load from there watching for signs of excessive pressure.

    Using Magnum primers in a recipe that calls out for regular primers is not bad IF you start at the bottom of the load level and work up the load. Hunting in extreme cold often requires things like Magnum primers.

    My recommendation is to search out regular primers and put the Magnum ones on the shelf for future use. Not only do the Magnum primers increase the cartridge pressures but your developed load from the regular primers will not shoot as well with the Magnum primers. The accuracy may return at some different powder level. BE SAFE!

    LDBennett
  4. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    Load data is not a recipe, only a set of guidelines. It is impossible to follow it to the letter, it simply cannot be done, to many variables like lot numbers, weather conditions, altitude and the biggest variable of them all, the firearm itself. That's why load data has a "start" and a "max". If it were as simple as a "recipe" there would be not need for a "start" load.

    This question about Mag vs Regular primers comes up quite often. The answer is pretty simple actually. Do what your manual suggests and "Anytime you change a component reduce the charge and work the load back up". So, if you have a good load with regular primers and you switch to a Mag primer drop the charge and work back up looking for signs of high pressure.

    BTW H-380 is a ball or Spherical powder that runs best with a Mag primer. In the 22-250 with 52gr bullets and H-380, Speer lists Start 38gr and a Max of 42gr ignited by a CCI Mag Primer. Hodgdon list a Start charge of 38gr and a Max of 41gr. So, your load is already on the start end of the spectrum so, I would not reduce you 38gr at all when switching to a mag primer.
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    bassn7:

    Great, completely different opinions!

    I stand by my recommendation to return to the starting load and develop a new load watching for pressure signs if you absolutely have to use the Magnum primers. Its the safest thing to do, in my opinion, short of not using Magnum primers at all.


    steve4102:

    My Sierra manual lists Remington 9 1/2 primers which is a regular primer for use with all powders (???). I NEVER use Magnum primers with Hodgdon spherical powders but I use Winchester primers, which, based on a magazine test from several years ago, are more energetic than most regular primers.

    The starting and MAX loads you get out of manuals is based on actual tests using the "recipe" listed in the test gun listed. Your gun may repeat those results and may not. That is why there are often conflicts on these limits between manuals. But there are variables other than primer and weight of bullet. Bullet design, because of the different amounts of jacket metal actually touching the bore from different OGIVE designs, effect MAX and Starting load levels too as does the internal dimensions of the barrel.

    The safe answer is go back to the starting load level and develop a new load for the Magnum primers. The easy thing to do is to forget using the Magnum primers and save them for another day and another cartridge that REQUIRES them.

    The resultant pressure in firing guns is a result of a lot of variables: pressure from the exploding primer, pressure from the burning powder, resistance of the bullet to start and continue moving (caused by the bullet mass, its coefficient of static and dynamic friction), changes to that reluctance to move by the smoothness of the rifle bore, and some other things I forgot. The observed pressures from the choice of gun and components you end up with, is the most important thing. So testing from the starting load is mandatory in my opinion if you want to remain safe.

    But we all get to choose and I choose and recommend safety over all. You can choose whatever you want but I suggest you consider safety when recommending to others. In this case I think it matters little but starting from the ground and working up is the safest recommendation while not the most expeditious.

    But it is all just my opinion and you, of course, can have yours. No offense intended.

    LDBennett
  6. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    Correct, and according to the two manuals that I have with this bullet weight powder combo, his 38gr IS the starting load. Speer also lists 380 with a Mag Primer starting at 38gr.

    Like I said in my original post, any time you change a component you should reduce the charge and work back up looking for signs of pressure. I also think 38gr is already at the bottom or start charge.

    It's important to know that Sierra does not test there loads in pressure barrels. They are tested in regular firearms. I contacted Sierra awhile back and asked them why they do not list pressures in their manuals. I was told that they have no pressure testing equipment. To determine high pressure they use the same techniques we as handloaders use, sticky bolt, chrony, primer pocket expansion etc.etc. They do however send some of their loads off to be tested in pressure barrels, some, not all. So, for me when Sierra's data differs greatly from other reputable sources, I tend to trust in those that use real pressure testing equipment(Hodgdon).

    .
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2009
  7. Gearheadpyro

    Gearheadpyro New Member

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    I'm also going to say it can be done, but you should start at the starting load and work up while watching for pressure signs.

    I don't have a manual in front of me so I can't tell you what the start load would be as per my sources right now.
  8. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    The Sierra manual for the bullet the user intends to reload says:

    52 gr HPBT Matchking and Hodgdon 380

    Start at 34.6 gr
    Max is 39.3 gr

    Indeed other manuals may list higher starting and max levels but the user is reloading a Sierra bullet. It only makes sense to follow the recipe for that exact bullet.

    LDBennett
  9. cakes

    cakes New Member

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    I never hesitate to use mag primers in place of regular ones. That goes for rifle and pistol cartridges. I have never had any problems with using them. All of the loaders I know use magnum primers when standard primers are unavailable. One of the guys loads thousands of rounds per week, and he was the one that convinced me that it is perfectly safe to switch primers. But he never loads max or min loads. Neither do I.

    The only place that I have noticed a difference in a load just from changing primers is switching to 209M from 209 primers when loading 12 gauge slugs.
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