Projectile Lengths

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by JLA, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Purpose of this thread is for the membership here to use for calculating twist rate requirements without having to go buy a box of whatever bullet just to find out it wont work.

    Feel free to measure any bullets you use, handgun and rifle alike and post the measurements here. Make sure you list the bullet diameter along with the length measurement.

    Here is a handy link to a twist calculator I use quite often and it will fit in with the use of this thread quite nicely.
    http://kwk.us/twist.html
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Here are the ones I have in stock.

    200 LSWC Dardas, .452" dia., .652" length
    200 Berrys TCFP, .452" dia., .531" length
    185 Hornady XTP, .451" dia., .530" length

    240 Hornady XTP, .430" dia., .703" length

    125 Hornady XTP, .357" dia., .547" length

    125 LRN Dardas, .356" dia., .602" length

    100 Berrys HBRN (.380 ACP), .356" dia., .485" length
    102 Golden Saber (.380 ACP), .355" dia., .473" length


    174 Sierra MatchKing, .311", 1.206"

    180 gr Winchester FailSafe, .308" dia., 1.303" length
    175 Sierra MatchKing, .308" dia., 1.232" length
    168 Hornady Amax, .308" dia., 1.278" length
    165 Hornady InterBond, .308" dia., 1.312" length
    155 Hornady Amax, .308" dia., 1.214" length
    110 Sierra Varminter, .308" dia., .803" length

    140 Hornady Amax, .264" dia., 1.380" length

    105 Hornady Amax, .243" dia., 1.234" length
    85 Sierra GameKing, .243" dia., .938" length

    69 Sierra MatchKing, .224" dia., .895" length
    62 Barnes TSX BT, .224" dia., .939" length
    53 Sierra MatchKing, .224" dia., .700" length


    I will make it a point to update as I get new projectiles.
  3. steve4102

    steve4102 Former Guest

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    Question.

    Isn't the bearing surface of the bullet what dictates how it relates to twist rate and not total length? Basically from base to Ogive instead of base to tip?
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. its the total length of the bullet that makes it require a specific RPM, and Bullet RPM is a fuction of velocity and rifling pitch.

    Take the 165 Hdy IB I listed above VS the 180 gr Failsafe also listed above. The failsafe requires 13.2 twist (180 gr bullet measuring 1.303" at 2700 fps, which is .30-06 velocity for that weight) and the IB requires 13.4 twist (165 gr bullet measuring 1.312 at 2800 fps, which is also .30-06 velocity for that weight) and the Failsafe has almost twice the bearing surface because it doesnt have a Boat tail. Now slow them both down in reduced loads to 2500 fps and the FS requires 12.7 and the IB requires 12.7, so internal ballistcally speaking they are equals in thier requirements as far as barrel twist is concerned.
  5. THEGUNDOC

    THEGUNDOC New Member

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    A SLOWER BULLET OF THE SAME LENGTH NEEDS A HIGHER TWIST RATE.. ?
  6. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    yes, because the velocity multiplied by the rifling pitch is what gives you the required RPM. Its why .300AAC blackout barrels are generally 7 or 8 twist.
  7. 68c15

    68c15 Well-Known Member

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    150 Hornady spire point .277 1.220

    130 Hornady SST .277 1.232 boat tail

    85 Sierra Game King HP .243 .950

    100 Sierra Game King spitzer .243 1.075

    105 Speer round nose .243 .960
  8. 68c15

    68c15 Well-Known Member

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    how do we determine the specific gravity of said projectile? Sierra's website does not list that data
  9. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    copper clad lead core jacketed bullets are 10.9
  10. slofgre

    slofgre New Member

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    Anyone by chance have measurements for 0.223 bullets?
  11. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Just the ones I have listed above.
  12. slofgre

    slofgre New Member

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    Thanks, somehow I glossed right over them
  13. rcairflr

    rcairflr Active Member

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    .223 Rem: (.224 diameter)
    50 Vmax/Zmax = .770"
    55 Vmax = .811
    53 Vmax = .828
    52 Sierra MK = .714

    6,5mm:
    123 Lapua Scenar = 1.302"
    120 Amax = 1.205
    140 Amax = 1.372
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  14. rawright54

    rawright54 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Specific gravity is the ratio of the density of the subject object to the density of water. Since the density of water is, by definition, 1.00, the density of the bullet in question is the specific gravity.

    To measure it, fill a graduated cylinder with water to some level less than full, and record the level. This will be in mL, but at room temperature a mL is the same as a cc. Drop in a bullet and record the new level. Since all but really weird bullets sink, this new level, minus the previous level, is the volume of the bullet.

    Divide the weight of the bullet by its volume, and you have its density. Of course, bullet weights are given in grains, and densities are reported in grams per cubic centimeter, so we have to do a bit of math, but it's not hard. Since a pound is 7000 grains, the weight of the bullet divided by 7000 is its weight in pounds. And since one pound is about 454 grams, multiplying the bullet weight in pounds by 454 yields its weight in grams. A simple division of the weight in grams by the volume in cubic centimeters (ccs) yields the density of a bullet.

    Of course, most normal people don't own a graduated cylinder - I do, but I'm a bit odd - so this isn't terribly practical. Another option is to fill a standard measuring cup with water about halfway and record the level. Then toss in a hundred bullets and record the change in level. The difference will be the volume of 100 bullets, so you can simply divide by 100 to get the volume of one bullet.

    I have to ask, though, why anyone would care about the specific gravity of a bullet. It's essentially a density problem, and there is very little variation in density among all the various bullet types of a given weight. A 100 gr hard lead bullet will have a density only slightly higher than a copper-clad FMJ bullet of the same weight, and I really doubt that the difference will have any influence on anything important.
  15. drymag

    drymag Active Member Supporting Member

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    -
    Gundoc: New to this so plz explain. If the round spins per the rifling, how do you accomplish the "needs a higher twist rate?" Thanks....
  16. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Run it at a faster velocity. If the cartridge cannot be pushed fast enough to stabilize the round without overloading the cartridge to dangerous pressures then you will need to rebarrel to a faster twist rate.

    a 1:9 .223 barrel will stabilize up to 69 gr bullets at .223 velocity. The same twist rate in a .22-250 will effectively stabilize up to 80 grain bullets because the .22-250 is capable of 600ish fps more velocity than the .223 is. And they both use .224" bullets. Its also why the .22-250 usually has a 1:12 twist barrel instead of the 1:9 a .223 has.

    Also smaller diameter bullets are harder to stabilize than larger diameter ones.

    Then you have the problem of overstabilization, which is an issue considered when shooting precision long range.

    Basically you want to select a bullet that will stabilize precisely where the rifling pitch and velocity capability of the cartridge put the RPM for optimal accuracy. This is why most .223 barrels 18-22 inches long with a 1:9 twist are ridiculously accurate with 69 grain sierra matchkings. Its right where that bullet likes the rotational forces to be.
  17. drymag

    drymag Active Member Supporting Member

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    JLA: Would it be correct to say, to use a chronograph and target, the best accuracy would not be necessarily be the max velocity at a specific distance. That best round for that distance may not be the best round for a significant increase in distance. Or did I read to much into your comment?
    -
    Opps, forgot the purpose of this thread. Got into the read of this and went on a tangent, my bad.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  18. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    Its all good.. Learning is occurring and THAT is what this forum is all about.

    Accuracy does not mean a specific velocity or a specific pressure in general. It is a specific pressure that produces a specific velocity that yields a specific barrel time for THAT rifle. And there is absolutely no way to know exactly what that load is without testing for it.

    I started a thread up in the stickies of ammo and reloading forum titled Load Development: Ladder Test. Check it out it gets into detail on how to easily and effectively test your rifle for just that load.

    The purpose of this thread here is to determine specific projectile length, so one can calculate the proper velocity/rifling pitch required to stabilize it.
  19. stev32k

    stev32k Member

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    So is the twist rate generated by the calculator the minimum rate meaning that a faster twist would be good (up to a point)?

    Here are a few I measured:

    .223 Rem
    Hornady No. 2266, .224 dia, 55 gr SP W/C, 0.690"
    Hornady No. 2267, .224 dia, 55 gr FMJ-BT W/C, 0.739"
    Sierra No. 1390, .224 dia, 55 gr HPBT, .722"
    Hornady No. 2270, .224 dia, 60 gr SP, .745"
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  20. stev32k

    stev32k Member

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    Here are a few pistol bullets I have in stock

    .45 ACP
    Rainier, 230 gr, plated (enc) RN, .452 dia X .658
    BBI, 230 gr, LRN (moly coated), .452 dia X .677
    Hornady, 185 gr FMJ-SWC, .451 dia X .528

    .40 S&W
    Precision Delta 165 gr FMJ-FN, .400 dia X .543
    Precision Delta 180 gr FMJ-FN, .400 dia X .587
    Hornady 155 gr XTP, .400 dia X .617

    9MM
    Precision Delta 115 gr FMJ RN, .355 dia X .562
    Hornady 115 gr. XTP. .355 dia X .541
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