Proposed spanking law (Your take on it?)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Crpdeth, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    Sorry Glocknut were not talking about the adult fetish here. :D

    News report

    Seriously though, I have to wonder first of all if they could actually tell us how to correct our own children, within reason.

    I have so many different feelings on this though! My Twin Brother and I were abused as children by our step mom, so I know firsthand that some people do not know how to use authority, some people, especially step parents even take their daily frustrations out on kids every stinking day, so I can see how that if a law like that were implemented there would be a few kids out there living an enjoyable life instead of living a horrible childhood and being robbed of those precious years.

    On the other hand, when there is love, I believe for the most part, the parent has a very light hand. The last thing I want to do is to inflict even the tiniest amount of pain on my baby girl because she is my heart, she is my life, when she cries it breaks my heart...So...Normal people who actually have a heart and any amount of compassion are not going to "overdo it" while spanking a child. So why don't the lawmakers take this one case at a time.

    It's kind of like those treehuggers who scream "gun control" when some thug goes on a shooting rampage when they should be screaming "longer sentencing".


    Are they too lazy to go after the lawbreakers, thinking that they should just dictate how everyone lives...Dictate how we raise our children, in order to control the few offenders that they probably should have kept locked up for previous offenses anyway???


    Crpdeth

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  2. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    WOW.....
    When I get to thinking about this it send chills down my spine! What is a parent to do when there really is nothing but a spanking is left to convince the little one that they are doing/being naughty. If you cann't spank, what do you do? I don't spank my daughters as they are 8 and 10 years old, and know better than to question my athority as the spanking times were years ago, and thankfully it has been along time. But, when I did I always followed up with a converstaion pointing out what was wrong with their behavior, along with A LOT OF LOVE, to let them know that it is their behavior, and not THEM that was being spanked. It's very hard to guage when a spanking is appropreate and when not, but I do think there is a place for it if done with a gental hand, and follwed up with an explanation and of course lot of love and attention, to let the child know that they are loved. With out the love it's just a beating, and no kid deserves that. And there is an old saying "spare the rod and spoil the child" and I believe in that as well. But love is what makes the difference, and with it you are in the right to disapline your child. And when they are grown they will thank you as I have my own parents,as they really did me a favor in those early years,shaping me to be a responcible adult. Best reguards, Kirk
  3. glocknut

    glocknut New Member

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    Gawd dangitt.... you cut me off at the pass on that one!!!! :D:D:D:D;)

    Seriously, i oppose more government regulation, or interferance. Kids need a spankin every now and then when they misbehave. Ones that do not ever get spanked grow up to be scr*wed up adults. Period.

    What i do oppose is being grabbed by the throat...slammed against the wall and lifted off my feet. My dad did that and i will never forget it.

    mike
    gn
  4. Bruce FLinch

    Bruce FLinch New Member

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    I don't think the Govt should regulate it. A kid needs a swat once in a while. Tho I have never hit Jessica, she has known the times she crossed the line. Obviously, if a kid comes to school w/ marks & bruises, it should be investigated. Some people can't let it go w/ a spanking & will escalate it. They need to be accounted for.
  5. firebird

    firebird New Member

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    I think the lawmakers are attempting to be proactive--trying to keep there from being ANY cases. Does it go overboard? Maybe, just like any other law. Take HIPAA for patient confidentiality; the law means well but has gone so far that it has really turned inside-out. It's also an attempt to get parents to see there are other ways of handling things. Does it really make sense to hit a child for hitting (or any other violent or semi-violent behavior)?? We as parents are supposed to have a higher level of thinking than that of our children. Does that mean I don't believe in spanking? Hell no. But I can tell you this: I spanked my son plenty of times but kids grow up and that old saying "this hurts me more than it hurts you" becomes a VERY real, physical reality! Then what? I'm a woman and my son is now as big as I am and I had to find a way to communicate with him and discipline him besides via spanking. Now, I'm sure you guys are all big and brawn and would never have that problem, but it something to think about. What message, what lesson do you really want your child to glean from his/her discipline?
  6. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    I see your point and recall as a teenager myself over hearing my step mom telling Dad "you should go in there and spank him" to which he replied "pfft! I'd need a logging chain, he's twice my size now!"

    I'd like to think that (as in Kirks situation) my daughter will be past the stage of "trying me" when she gets older, but if not, I'm sure that taking privileges away from her would be very effective as well... Right now she thinks "time out" is a game and will walk over and politely ask the child care provider at daycare if she can go, then she'll go plop down on the little bench and just sit there smiling, but she takes the threat of a spanking very seriously.

    On the other hand I have a nephew who, at the age of five, would tell his parents to spank him harder and laugh at them...Believe it or not he turned out to be a heck of a brilliant, very good natured, young man.

    I guess what I am saying is that we as people are pretty smart, we know what is working (in our individual cases) and what is not working/no longer working and I don't think, we (as normal people), need the government telling us how to raise our kids.

    And....

    The "message I want my child to glean from his/her discipline" is that there are rewards for doing things my way...My way will keep you from being hurt while trying to open the utensil drawer (again) where the steak knives are, or from breaking your neck while climbing up in the bathroom sink (again!). The "message" will also, hopefully, prepare my child for the real world, where the punishment for wrong doing is much greater than a spat on the hand.

    Crpdeth
  7. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    The lawmakers may be trying to be proactive, but they are trying to be proactive in an area in which they simply have no constitutional mandate or authority.

    As for your other point, Ma'am, I stood 6 inches taller than my mom by the time that I was 14, but (please don't read into this IN ANY WAY THAT I'M IMPLYING THAT YOU HAVEN'T, IF I TOOK it that way I know I would be greatly offended, and I don't wish to offend you at all. Please read to the end before forming your opinion, not trying to start an argument here.) Mom had done her job as far as dicipline by the time I was that old. She is a drunk--has been my whole life, and would go to hitting me for something I probably deserved it for when she had a full tank--so to speak, after I was that old, until I realized she was scared of me for my size, and she was afraid of me hitting her. After that, I simply wouldn't let her hit me when she was so drunk that she wouldn't remember doing it later on, I'd get a hold of her wrists and just hold on until she calmed down, feeling like I had a tiger by the tail the whole time. I'm sure your kids are the same way--I was ashamed when I figured out that my mom thought I might hit her. I learned early to "Honor thy Father and thy Mother," and it didn't matter then or now weather my mom or dad took after me with a baseball bat, granted I'm going to try to avoid it, but I couldn't be compelled EVER to hit my mother, or any other woman. Anyone who would ranks right there with rapists, athletes foot fungus, and that white stuff that accumulates a the corner of your mouth when you are really really thirsty. Even at that age, a rebellious, obstanant teenager, I believed that my mother had never in my life went to throw me a beating that I didn't deserve, and I employ the same dicipline regimen with my boys.

    I only hope they turn out respecting me as I respect my parents. My oldest is only 6, and I don't have to turn him over my knee very often any more. We pretty much got that out of the way from the "terrible twos," where the twins are now, through age four. Granted, he still wanders out of line once in a while, and I am sure to snap him back quickly and harshly; that he continues down the appropriate narrow path. A good example was his second day of kindergarten, we got a call form the school that he was yelling and screaming at the teacher, knocking stuff off her desk, and generally throwing a fit. Within 40 minutes I was home from work and sitting in the principals office and pulling him out of school. I've never been that enraged in my life. The further I drove to get there, the madder I got, and by the time I got to the school, I was seeing stars. The principal didn't want me to pull him out of class because, "If you take him home for this, he'll think that if he acts up in school, he'll get to go home." But he said it was ultimately up to me as the parent, and he appreciated my prompt attention to this matter. He said so many parents would've never showed up, and many would have gotten upset about being called. So many parents treat school as a babysitting service, and then they wonder why their kids get a lousy education. Anyway I pulled him out of school and got him in the suburban. I drove straight to my moms, simply the first semi-private place I could get to, and I spanked his butt until he had blisters. After that I felt better, and I made him go tell Grandma what he'd done, and then took him home to deal with him mom.

    Was I harsh? Very. Excessively? We've gotten 4 phone calls from the school since then telling us how good William is being, that he is doing exactly as he is told, paying attention in class, and trying really hard. I won't beat his butt without being sure he knows exactly why he's getting it, and I am equally generous with my praise. We've taken him out for ice cream or to Pizza Hut or something every day we've gotten a positive phone call. That is another thing I see, parents who have nothing ever good to say to their children, nothing they ever do is good enough. That'll leave a lot deeper scars than any beating a parent can deal out, and they haven't passed a law against that yet, either. Some people just don't have any business being parents, but it isn't the governments job to tell anyone how to parent.
  8. 358 winchester

    358 winchester *TFF Admin Staff*

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    No two people are the same! No two families are the same! I don't approve of abuse in any form for any reason. But when a child or a teenager just will not listen or " play by Mom & Dad's rules" then there has to be an answer !
    At an early age a swat or two on the butt isn't going to hurt at 16 or 17 it isn't going to help.
    I live in my house and it is mine I don't live as a criminal and I will not allow the government to come into my home and dictate my every move.
    Laws be dammed I have rights also. If they are going to make every choice for me then they need to also take on the task of doing all of it. Drive the kids to the ball game to band practice, to the mall, take the hunting & fishing, teach them all about life and when they are grown they will be sheep also:mad::mad::mad::mad:
    Sorry but I just could tell you how I really feel I would be banned for life.;)
  9. blackhawkkid308

    blackhawkkid308 Member

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    i was brought up as a child with people that believed in spare the rod and spoil the child. i believe in a good stern whipping if needed to straighten things out. some people think that is a crime but is just a way to install discipline in children without really hurting them except their feelings. my rant and rave for the week.
    bhk308
  10. satellite66

    satellite66 New Member

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    I saw the guy that is proposing this on O'Reilly and he would not answer the question when he was asked if he ever spanked his kids. He sounded like a moron talking in circles about the children being helped.
  11. user

    user Active Member

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    Here's my "I've studied the Bible and raised five kids, so I'm an expert" lecture on spanking:

    It's important to recognize that kids are automatic learning devices, and that they pick up on everything they perceive and build it into the operating system they're creating in their heads. Not satisfied with just what we want them to learn, they pick up on our language, gestures, emotional states, and relations with other people.

    Some people get angry at what their kids did and hit the kids. It doesn't matter how hard the touch is, when the parent is angry at the kid, the kid recognizes that for what it is, and any touch hurts. What the kid learns from that experience is that "parental figure sometimes gets angry AT ME and strikes me." The lesson: avoid that parent. When a parent strikes a child in anger, the parent is being self-indulgent, and that's all that's happening. It's abusive and depersonalizing.

    A proper parent wants to give his child the tools he needs to be an effective adult. That requires instruction. But the kid is so busy with the whizzing thoughts in his own mind, he can't really pay attention to what the parent thinks is important at the moment, and depending on his age, he may not be rational. Thus the spanking. A swat on the bottom will stop the kid's world for about eighteen seconds, during which time the parent can get a verbal message across, like, "hold the handrail when you're on the stairs" or "don't hurt the kitty". The purpose of the spanking is to get the kid's attention, not to punish, per se.

    But the most important thing about instruction of children is that the parent is willing to drop whatever he's doing and attend to the child right away. That teaches the child that his behavior is important, and that he, himself, is an important person to his parent. Even if the mission is a spanking, that kind of attention communicates that the parent is vitally interested in, and cares about, the kid.

    Teach love; do not teach fear, shame, and guilt. And, no matter what you think about it, or plan to teach, you're constantly teaching your child when the child is with you. So be the person you want your child to grow into.

    As to the article: there's no way that the state can evaluate the intention of the spanking parent or the damage done to the spanked child. Physical damage is presumably already actionable under child abuse statutes. But the real damage to the child from a parent who acts with wrong intent is depersonalization. If you communicate to your child the idea that he is only an object in your world, that you can do with as you please, ... well, the sins of the father are passed to the third and fourth generations...
  12. rosierita

    rosierita Active Member

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    aint nobody gonna tell me how to raise my kids!;):mad:

    mine grew up w/ spankings... my attitude is alot like dcd's.
  13. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

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    I have two examples of discipline of children that illustrate how spanking, along with other methods and love heavily meted out, work.

    My eldest son is well over six feet and when he was in high school [back in the early seventies], about junior year, he came home one night and cussed and fussed about my not letting him have his way in the use of my Toronado for a date with a young lady he wanted to impress. My ex-wife barely came up to his shoulder but didn't countenance any bad mouthing Dad. When I walked into the room late, after a Looong day at court, she had him pinned up against the wall of the den with her hand pressing on his chest, shaking a finger at him and telling him what was NOT going to continueThis type behavior. He was looking down at her and saying, "yes, Ma'am" to each short sentence she hurled at him. When she had her say, he apologized and, to our knowledge, he never did it again. Had he not been brought up with lots of love, and lots of spankings when needed, I believe he wouldn't be the man he was that day or has been ever since.

    Another time when my middle daughter was just a couple months into walking and loved to run with those little legs comically flying, we had the front door open carrying in groceries. She saw that freedom was possible and flew out the door as fast as her little legs would carry her - - - AND, Right into and crossing the street. Thank the Lord there was nothing coming..... I hit high gear/overdrive after her but she got ¾ of the way across the street before I caught up with her. There in the middle of the street I grabbed her, put her over my knee, stooping in the street and whopped her a couple times. It really didn't hurt her but it did make a lot of noise against her rubber/plastic panties over the ole clothe diapers. Afterwards, I cradled her in my arms and hugged her going back into the house. The tears were gone by the time I set her down in front of the TV. However, to this day, and she's now in her early forties, she has never run out into a street without stopping and looking. Did it harm her? No. Did she learn a valuable lesson needed to be learned? Yes.

    I rest my case.
  14. I really can't add to what Marlin has already said so eloquently. My dad was not one to spare the rod when it was needed, though just the threat of it was an adequate deterrent in the vast majority of cases. I used the same methods with my kids. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, they say, and my kids turned out just fine. My son works for a high-tech corporation based on training he received during six years serving his country in the US Navy together with additional training he acquired using the GI Bill, my eldest daughter has two fine sons and works in the medical billing field, and my youngest daughter is a veterinary tech. All are sensible, well adjusted adults.
  15. obxned

    obxned New Member

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    At times, there is no substitute for a good swat on the butt. You can explain the consequences of sticking things into the light socket to a 4 year old, and the kid might just go ahead and test your theory to see if it is true.

    Without good, firm discipline at home, we are forced to discipline through the juvenile justice system and Darwin.
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