Public employee...entitlements???

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by mranum, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. mranum

    mranum Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Central WI
    Can someone explain to me why an employee of the state thinks they have the right to retire and get full benefits at 47 years of age when there is no way the common taxpayer who is paying the bill can do it????? This is exactly the sort of thing Scott Walker is fighting here in Wisconsin. Pray to God his recall is not successful.

    Teacher Upset She Can't Retire at 47

    MEA member says reform bill calling for teachers to contribute minimally to retirement is unfair

    By Tom Gantert, published on April 18, 2012

    Terri List says she would tell her students not to become a teacher in Michigan.


    One of the reasons is because the Saginaw Township Community School District English teacher won’t be able to retire at age 47 as she has hoped.

    List was highlighted by the Michigan Education Association as one of the critics of Senate Bill 1040, which would require public school employees to contribute at least 5 percent of their compensation to their retirement plan.

    The MEA reported on its website: "Saginaw Township teacher Terry (sic) List had hoped to retire in the next three years when she was 47 years old. That wouldn’t be possible under SB 1040. List would have to work another 16 years to be eligible for health benefits."

    “By the time I’m 60, I would have put in 43 years of service, earning a salary at the top of the pay scale. How does that save the district money? You could hire two people for the cost of one and encourage young people to join the profession. Right now, I would not recommend to my pupils to become a teacher in Michigan.”

    List didn’t respond to an email seeking comment.

    According to the school’s most recent teacher’s contract, List earns between $70,000 and $80,000 a year depending upon her level of education. Factor in expected pay raises over the next 15 years and it’s likely List would make more than $90,000 by the time she retires, said Michael Van Beek, education policy director at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

    Van Beek estimated List’s pension would be $60,000 a year in retirement and it would increase 3 percent a year and she would get health benefits when she retired at age 60. Van Beek also said that it is likely that List bought “years of service” because she said she would have 43 years of service by age 60. Van Beek said that practice is basically extinct in the private sector.

    Leon Drolet, chairman of the Michigan Taxpayers Alliance, called List’s comments “amazing.”

    “Wow. They have reached the politicians’ level of entitlement,” Drolet said. “She thinks she is entitled to retire at 47? Holy smokes. I don’t know what more to say to that. A government employee thinking that 47 is a reasonable expectation to retire shows just how deep inside their own bubble they live, insulated from the real world.”

    Charles Owens, president of the Michigan chapter of the National Federation of Independent Business, said tongue-in-cheek that List was “spot on” in her complaint.

    “If you want to retire if you are 47, apparently teaching is not the place to go,” Owens said. “The least Terri could do is provide a list of places other people could go so they can retire when they are 47.”

    That said, this TAXPAYER is now off to a LONG day of work. ;)
  2. hogger129

    hogger129 Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    I'm wondering the same thing mranum. This entire ordeal is exactly for that reason. I went down to these protests last February because I wanted to see what was going on when all those union people and others were down on the Capitol Square here in Madison. I was kind of hoping there was a pro-Walker protest going on. It made me sick that these people were calling this guy Hitler and holding up signs depicting him as such - all because he's trying to stand up for what's right and stop these peoples' free rides.

    Another thing I've heard some of the potential candidates to run against Walker say is now they're planning on repealing Wisconsin Act 94 - which is our Castle Doctrine legislation.

    I don't think Walker is going to lose the recall. Even my parents - who you could describe as a little left of center - are planning on voting FOR Walker. The Dems don't give a crap about their voters. All they want to do is get the unions back in. I mean the only people who will vote against Walker are the Dems and libs of Madison and Milwaukee - against the rest of Wisconsin and the non-Dems and non-libs of Madison and Milwaukee.

    Then when they lose they'll whine that it was fixed - blah, blah, blah - Koch Brothers - blah, blah, blah.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012

  3. armoredman

    armoredman Active Member

    Here's the other side. DOC tried hard to get a 20 year retirement, just like the other LE agencies, and finally got it about 11 years ago. That went away this year. I was set to retire at age 55, until I left. I go back, I won't retire until age 70. Do I complain? No, the state has to save money somewhere, and honestly, even the union I belonged to made me ill sometimes. I think public service employees should be at-will employees just like private sector, as well - you have no idea how many total incompetents in uniform I personally knew that were there simply because it was too hard to get rid of them.
  4. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2011
    Jax, Fl.
    The worse part of the so called retirement, for the tax payer, is once they retire they can go right back to work while drawing their retirement.
  5. mranum

    mranum Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Central WI
    That very thing is being investigated here in Wisconsin. The orchestrated double dip is suppose to be illegal here but its been reported that many teachers and professors retired after the chit hit the fan last year and negotiated to be rehired to fill their old position while collecting a state pension. I guess they are a "special" class and are deserving of such an entitlement. :rolleyes:

    I don't know what to expect during these recalls, but I do know this, there are a lot of people that are just fed up with all the temper tantrums of the socialists/anarchists/communists/and all around childlike morons on the left. My gut tells me its going to come back and bite them, especially after the democrats took a crap on private unions by not allowing the new taconite mine to forward.

    My gut says the way things stand right now, Walker takes 60% of the vote. :patriotic:
  6. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2011
    Jax, Fl.
    Did you forget, or were you concerned about putting the real reason for Wisconsin's problems?

    It's the UNIONS that are ruining Wisconsin. If Walker remains in office, he needs to reach deep and hard inside their throats, and rip their windpipes out. I would have said rip their spines out, but anybody, or groups of nobody's, who would set out to destroy the state they live in, for their own entitlement, don't have spines.

    Similar to our well known Florida jellyfish.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  7. hogger129

    hogger129 Well-Known Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    I agree completely.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  8. mranum

    mranum Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Central WI
    Your right. There was/is a time and place for them but not as public employees. IMO. The people they negotiate with are more often than not elected and there by have "no skin in the game". What leg does the public's official have to stand on? Threaten to take its jobs elsewhere? Right. Union officials negotiate a sweet deal then turn around and give the negotiator campaign contributions, and we the tax payer gets screwed again. And again, and again until like now the "people" are sick of it and try to do something about it. :mad:
  9. Poppypaul

    Poppypaul Active Member

    Sep 19, 2011
    Newtown, CT
    The public sector employees generally across the country are living the good life at the taxpayer's expense. What is happening in Wisconsin is that at last we have a governor who is rolling back the gravy train. The same thing is going on in New Jersey with Gov Christie. But before we completely bash the unions as the one and only bad guys remember that an agreement takes the signature of two parties. Previous "managements" agreed to those union contracts. They also bear responsibility for agreeing to lavish contract clauses which were not affordable in the long term. The unions are not the only bad guys here. Nevertheless, these outrageously expensive agreements cannot continue and the public sector employees need to understand that the honeymoon is over.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  10. Zhurh

    Zhurh Active Member

    Mar 19, 2010
    Upper Yukon, Alaska
    Ya know, all kinds of smoking mirrors concerning what is being said by all sides.

    Every school district is different. Most teachers don't even keep pace with inflation, just like everybody else. I have watched school districts have teachers pay half their med coverage and then give them 2k raises year after year which benefits district when health care costs close to $2000/month per employee. Then other districts don't hardly ever give raises but pay all med coverage. I have a hunting buddy who retired after 36 years of teaching and he receives $4400/month (highest I ever heard of); I don't believe all the stories about teachers making 8K/month in retirement. Wife and I have our teaching certs and are under state teacher retirement plan; they take out 8.9% outta our paychecks (untaxed but every penny is our own earnings, not state contribution); been doing it for years so after 25-30 years of investment you will be approaching maybe 80% of paycheck. I doubt we will ever get it, with Obama's plans on going after the 16 trillion in 401's with taxes or if the dollar collapses.

    Also many school districts are one big good ole boy network of mostly liberally minded teacher's families. They are on school boards, employed in administration, ect; good ole nepotism and they make sure their wages are protected, no joke; no cut backs ever that is.

    I know everybody hates the teachers, probably due to politics but there are many Republicans working as teachers too.

    I also think you will find that for every school district that is over paid, there are 10 that don't come even close, no joke.
  11. jbrescue

    jbrescue New Member

    Mar 8, 2012
    N. Ridgeville, Ohio
    As a public employee in the pension system, I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there. I don't agree with retiring and getting rehired into the same position or even another one in the same organization as is a common practice. The biggest misconception is that we don't pay for our retirement. 10% comes off the top of my check for my pension. I am paying the pension for the retirees just like the rest of you are paying for the current social security benefits. I also put money aside for a deferred compensation like a 401K, however, there is no employer match into that fund. By the time I see my check, at least 1/3 of it is gone with pension and taxes. I chose my profession because I love what I do. But, I also chose it knowing that I would be able to retire at age 48 with 25 years on the job. Those are the minimums. I could have gone public sector, but I chose not to. The Unions that have done the most damage are the ones that have repeatedly striked and caused work stoppages. I do not have that luxury in my line of work. We work no matter what. I have battled against this issue very hard for the last year. Ohio was a major battleground for this issue. If you think about the amount of public servants, we are a small portion. The local civil servants get the bad wrap because of a few that have caused the biggest problems.

    Not all Unions are bad. Not all public workers are bad either. We have to negotiate to get what we have and what we get to keep. We cannot get what we want without the City agreeing to what we want and giving them what they want.
  12. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Guest

    Do you guys understand just how hard it is to be a teacher. It is not some 8 to 4 job. I work in a school system. My pay sucks, I haven't had a raise in three years, I have my job threatened every time they look at the budget. I have worked for the school system for five years now and every year at budget time the first thing out of people's mouth is let's get rid of the computer techs in the school that would save a lot of money. Right I have over 1000 pcs to take care of. I close on average 150 tickets a month what is about 1 ticket every hour I work.

    To get ready for testing I will put in over 60 hours a week for 3 weeks.

    Have any of you been a teacher in the last 5 years? I have been kicked, scratched, bitten, screamed at, spit on and that was all by elementary school kids. I know teachers that have had first graders thrown chairs at them. One teacher in my school had a child attack her and tried to choke her. I have seen kids beating up their younger brother and sister because it was funny. No this was not some ghetto inner city school this school was in an upscale neighborhood surrounded by $350,000+ homes. Many of the kids in my area have no parents because they are working 60 hours a week in dc and driving another 25 hours a week to get to and from.

    I am surprised so many teachers teach as long as they do. They work all summer long all school year many times 60 to 70 hours a week. So if the law says 20 and they can retire what is the problem?
  13. Zhurh

    Zhurh Active Member

    Mar 19, 2010
    Upper Yukon, Alaska
    Hey Tango, how many fights have you broken up in the classroom, ha? If the people only knew what they really had to deal with as teachers, no joke.

    NEA takes over a 100 bucks a month outta our paychecks and gives it all to Big"O"; now that pisses me right off. If you want to remain a teacher, you keep your mouth shut.
  14. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2011
    Jax, Fl.
    Personally, I'm tired of folks bringing up teachers every time someone mentions unions. Apparently nobody watched Waiting For Superman. Teachers take their orders from unions, period.

    Kids " graduate " from high school because if the teachers don't pass them, they and the schools get failing grades. FACT, I have had two so-called adults who worked for me that DID NOT know how to spell their middle names. I have had adults apply for a higher paid position, who could not fill out the test paperwork because they didn't understand the simple aZZ questions. I learned the " 12 table " when I was in grade school. Now nobody can add 12+12 without a calculator. It's not a surprise to anyone, who has ever had a supervisory position, that the folks they are supervising are just plain stupid.

    And these examples apply equally to so-called college graduates. I speak to them, look at their hand filled applications, and walk away shaking my head. It's freeking pathetic.
    It's not only pathetic, it sad. This country is being dumbed ( no such word ) up on a daily basis. Whose fault is that???? Parents? NO it is not. Kids are sent to school to learn. They are supposed to be taught by their teachers, not by the parents.

    Math, English, History, Science, Social Studies, etc..etc..

    The statement below by the current administration is nothing new. It has been said by every administration....and to date, it means absolutely nothing. It never will means anything until the unions are out of the equation, and COMPETENT teachers are once again back in control...and we all know that will never happen..................
  15. gvw3

    gvw3 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 16, 2011
    Chicago IL Area
    I have been saying this same thing for over 20 years. When the unions left the private sector they went to government employees. Now they are pretty much the only union workers left.

    We have a superintendent of our school system that retired at $456k a year. That was after 2 years of service. She got sick and had to take an early retirement.

    They keep saying they can make more in the private sector. They have lost touch with reality. The average teacher in our school district retires with a $90k a year pension.

    This is out of control in my area. I know it's not like this all around the country but it is in the Chicago area.
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