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Question about selective fire components

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms & Related Items' started by johnlives4christ, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    it's legal to own an ar15.

    and it's legal to own the needed parts to convert an ar15 into an m16.

    but if you own both at the same time, and get caught, they nail your butt to the wall.

    so my question is this

    2 room mates live in the same house. one owns an ar15, the other owns all of the full auto m16 parts. if they kept both the rifle, and the parts together i could see the atf being able to do something about it if they got caught. saying that only one of them owned both the rifle and the parts.

    but. lets say they each have their own gun safes. the one keeps his ar in his safe, while the other keeps his parts in his safe. what could the atf do about it? could the get one or both of these guys for anything or would this in a sense beat the system?

    if a person had a willing son or brother or dad, whatever. they could have this other person buy the parts and keep them at their house. legally, then should the need ever arise, the parts would be accessible to the owner of a rifle that could use the parts.

    so since you can legally own the parts or the rifle, but not both, can you be guilty by association?
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure they don't care so much about the ownership of the parts, as they do about the proximity of the parts.

    If you own a gun, and I own the conversion parts, and you're in Kaintuck and I'm in Florida, they don't care, but if we're both in the same apartment, then there's a machine gun in that apartment.

    If you, for example, are a convicted felon, and they catch you with a gun, tellin' 'em, "It ain't my gun, it's Alpo's" won't help. You will still get arrested. I think it's the same thought process.
  3. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    i reckon that answers muh question. thanks
  4. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    This is simply another "I figured out how to evade the law and get away with it, see how smart I am" posting.

    If you want to avoid breaking the law and going to jail don't flirt with ideas about how you and your brother, father, son, uncle, sisters, cousins and aunts can divvy up FA parts so you can put them all together some day. And that is the idea, else why have or have someone else have the parts in the first place?

    Jim
  5. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    I think Alpo is 100% correct in that there is a machine gun in the apartment regardless who owns what parts. However I once had a friend who has since passed away who was a class 3 dealer (machine guns for those who don't know) who became a convicted felon while being a dealer. Of all things he was making and selling Disney movies taped from one of those old back yard satellite systems not knowing it was illegal he advertised in the local Big Nickle paper. An FBI agent seeing the ad and instead of just warning the poor dumb bastard and them having nothing more important to do, arrested and convicted him. He did not go to jail but got 5 years probation. He had a live in girl friend and ATF allowed him to transfer the guns and all licenses to her and she continued to run the shop out of their home all the while he was a convicted felon. It is my understanding had he been married to her they would not have allowed it. That was over 25 years ago and I doubt very seriously that could happen today.

    Ron
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2009
  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    G. Gordon Liddy. For those of you who may not know, rolling up 40 years ago, the sitting President wished to be re-elected. An organization was started - CREEP (the Committee to RE Elect the President). They did some illegal stuff and got caught. Someone had to go to jail, and Liddy was one of the few that did.

    Anyway, on his radio show, he commented that HE does not own any guns, since he is a convicted felon. His wife, however, has an extensive gun collection, many of which are stored on his side of the bedroom.

    There was a feller out in Arizona (I believe) who was making 50BMG rifle receivers, in 80% condition, and selling them with detailed instructions on how to complete them. Since they were 80% receivers, they were NOT guns, they were NOT serial numbered, records did NOT have to be kept. ATF did not like this. He was a convicted felon, but since these were NOT guns, he could make them. ATF raided the house and found a Winchester 94 in the closet. Ex-con with a gun - BOOM - jail. His argument that it was his wife's gun did not hold up. This makes me wonder about Liddy's statement.

    Guy I know used to have a gun shop. One of his employees had a fight with her ex-husband, and he narked her to ATF. Seems she was an ex-con. She didn't handle the guns - she was the bookkeeper - but she worked at a gun shop. He had to fire her.

    These three things tell me that ATF rules make no flippin' sense, whatsoever.
  7. xm774u

    xm774u Former Guest

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    no and no
  8. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    i have learned recently that it is not legal to own the selective fire components for an m16 as they are restricted without paperwork. however it is legal to own some other selective fire components.
  9. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    personally i think all of the restrictions and government bull crap is... bullcrap
  10. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    Since an AR-15 is manufactured to fire semi and cannot be made to fire full auto without some machine work on the lower receiver to allow the full auto parts to be placed in the gun, why is possession of the auto parts a violation? The AR-15 does not fire automatically and cannot be readily converted to fire full auto.

    This is not like the M1 carbine where you can simply replace some parts and have a functioning machine gun. There's quite a bit of machine work required.
  11. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Because the all-knowing and all-powerful ATF said so.
  12. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    its sad when the gubbment says what we can and caint have and everyone accepts it.
  13. InfiniteArms

    InfiniteArms New Member

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    That is incorrect. It is legal for anyone to own M16 fire control group parts as long as they do not own or possess a AR15. Most companies will not sell the parts to you without a FFL or proof you own a M16 (form 4) but that is just company policy not law.

    Now i strongly suggest people don't try and skirt the law but i do like people to know what is law and what is third party policy.
  14. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    okay.

    this whole thing was started by me seeing a lower for an H K G3 rifle for sale with the selective fire components still installed, been curious about it ever since.
  15. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    I believe the reason is with the G3 the lower is not the registered receiver but like the FAL just a part so the group is a parts kit. The upper is the receiver, so possession of the lower and FA parts is OK as long as you do not have an upper the parts will fit.
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