Question for any long range shooters...

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting Forum' started by Bo-Bo, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

    Jan 25, 2012
    A .308 is indeed a fine choice for your friend to punch holes with out to 500 – 600 meters and it will do it with less pain ( recoil ) and for much less money.
    BUT…….While I admit being addicted now to long range shooting I will warn your friend, once he becomes proficient at 500-600 he may want to reach on out and truly test the limits of his weapon.
    Some things to remember are.
    At 900 – 1000 meters a .308 bullet is tumbling from most rifles thus rendering most bullet calculations ineffective at such distances.
    The .300wm shoots much flatter even out to 1100 + meters or about 1200 yards and is less affected by cross winds,and the military states target engagement out to 1210 yards are attainable with correct ammunition. While the .308 Winchester rounds effective military engagement limit is 800 yards.
    There is about 5 pounds difference in felt recoil between the two rounds. That may not sound like much but your shoulder will tell you different.
    I own both calibers in Remington 700 actions and like them both equally well. And if your friend will be satisfied with 500 yard shots I to would recommend the .308 only because of comfort and cost of ammo.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  2. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    While seven out of eight of the longest sniper shots in history have taken place in the last decade, better technology and training are only two variables in the long-distance shooting equation. Teamwork, natural skill and even luck all factor into the longest kill shots in the military books. The variables when shooting at distances up to one and a half miles can be staggering. It takes more than technology and know-how to tackle crosswinds, elevation and even the Earth’s rotation. Coming in at #8 is the .308, 1,367 yards. The .308 is still supersonic at 1,000 meters.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012

  3. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Guest

    1. What is this Meters you speak of? This here is the USA we talk in Yards. That metric crap is for Europe.

    2. What are you talking about? NO they are not. I am shooting a 308 with a 26" 12 twist barrel using 185gr Berger bullets on top of a nice load of Varget. My buddy is using a 24" barrel 308 and the same load. None of our bullets are tumbling at 800, 900 or 1000 yards. How do I know this? Well I spend time in the pits pulling targets at the matches. Watched a guy shooing 220gr SMK out of a 308 and his weren't tumbling at all either.

    Is the 308 the best 1000 yard round NO it is by far not the best. It is the most popular because of F-TR requires the use of 223 or 308, Palma must be shot with a 308 using 155gr bullets. Palma people are an extreme bunch as in they will load over max to get more speed if it doesn't mean losing accuracy. They also shoot 30 or 32" barrels.

    I have talked to some Nationally ranked F-Class shooters and many would use a 6 dasher if it weren't for the 308 or 223 limitations.

    One cartridge I have seen that is really gaining a popularity on the long range firing line is the 300 WSM. more speed than a 308 with not a lot more recoil.

    The fastest and easiest way to get into the long distance shooting is buying a Remington 700 5r or a savage 12 F-TR both in 308 and start going to town.

    Personally I would put more time and effort into learning how to shoot than equipment.
  4. Twicepop

    Twicepop Well-Known Member

    Jan 9, 2012
    NW Ohio
    We used to shoot informal benchrest at a club I used to belong to, I shot a 220 swift for years. I started of with a Ruger No.1 in this caliber, and got beat almost everytime. I then went to a Remington 700 Clasic in the same caliber, and didn't get beat quite as often with this rifle. I then went to another Remington, this time a 700 Varmit Synthetic also a Swift, and strrted winning more than losing. I then went to a Savage 112 heavy barrel laminated stock, again a Swift and was never less than third place with this rifle. With the ability to set the head space as tight as a match rifle, and the floating bolt head, my pick would be a Savage, plus they cost less than a Remington. Another option would be a Weatherby Vangard, or a Howa heavy barrel basically the same gun as the Weatherby.

    those who beat their guns into plowshares, will plow plow for those who didn't
  5. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

    Jan 25, 2012
    Woaa… calm down bud I didn’t mean to imply the .308 couldn’t hit past 800. I was generalizing for the fellow asking about the 500 yard paper punching. He will be (I assume) using off the shelf ammo. Using a JDM ballistics calculator at 800 yards all 165 gr. bullets and all except a 178 gr bthp from a 22” barrel are below 1129fps at sea level and 70°. The following comes from the US Army Sniper training manual. Printed in 2004.
    "The US Army defines the maximum effective range of a .308 as 800 meters. The US Marine Corps defines the effective range as 1000 meters. There will be variances due to things like bullet weight, barrel length, etc. Generally speaking, bullets are no longer effective once they become subsonic, which happens at around 1000 meters with a 178 gr..308."
    Also the training materials in our Govt. manuals (for what ever reason) distances are expressed in meters.
    Still doesn’t mean you can’t hit way past that. But he will need more than box ammo.
    Read on and you will see I recommended the .308 for his use. I just didn't want him to think it would shoot with the .300 win mag he was looking at...cause it won't.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  6. Hello everyone,

    I’m new to the forum, and from the replies, and information I have read, I find myself a novice among experienced shooters. Other then my military experience with my M1, zeroing in my weapon, the last thing on my mind was bullet velocity, and what grain load to use.

    I have three guns, Smith & Wesson 38, Stoeger 12g Couch Gun, and my favorite, my Thompson Contender with 2-12" barrels and 1-14" barrel. I use my 22mag barrel at the range for target practice, mostly because ammo is cheaper, and I have more ammo to shot.

    It’s a small 75’ indoor range, so I always shoot the full distance. I don’t care for the large targets because they don’t challenge me to shoot at the center bull. So I paste a 2" red or black sticker target in the center of the backboard and send it to the 75 foot spot.

    My Contender is a single shoot, with standard front and rear sights, and it’s zeroed at 100 yards. So, if anything…it’s up to me if I get my shots into that 2 inch target. I do miss a few, but most of my 3 shot groupings are very nice and tight.

    I have a 14" barrel I haven’t had a change to fire. It uses a Thompson 375JDJ 220gr and it’s not allowed at the indoor range. Not sure how far it will go accurately.

    Maybe you can tell me. Any information would be appreciated.

    "It is our own vanity that makes the vanity of others intolerable to us."

  7. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    Rocky , I've a mate who runs Big buffalo safari's in the northern territory

    he has one as your and dropped a 1800 lb buff at 400, a clean base of the skull / instant kill shot

    thats a mighty piece of gun ..

    its ruined two scopes , dont get him started on it , he'll bend your ear for a good hour or more
  8. Jack,

    When I shoot with my 44mag in my 12" barrel, it does have one hell of a kick. I added a tripod and it tames the kick a bit.

    Nice to meet you, Jack.

    Thank you.

  9. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    Most welcome !!

    i take it you reload the JDJ there or have they become tame too ??
  10. I've never reload it. I get mine thru Thompson Center. It's a hard round to find any where else.
  11. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

    Jan 25, 2012
    I'm told that's the official handgun of Jurassic park. :D
  12. deadeyedink63

    deadeyedink63 New Member

    Aug 25, 2012
    If you look at the ballistic tables the 7mm mag/ the 270/ the 243/ have almost identical trajectory's with different bullet weights if you want to shoot 500 yds no problem, I have and it took me about 2 weeks of trigger time and some very serious time at the reloading bench but if you can do 6x8 targets out to 500 that should be sufficient the key is not the gun sir it's the shooter first then the bullet but the gun is last. sorry, beware the man with one gun he's going to beat you every time, white feather only used one gun,it was not a 300WM.
  13. sting75ray

    sting75ray Well-Known Member

    Jun 30, 2011
    You need to get you a 16 inch 45/70 barrel for it. It is a handfull.:D
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