Question on powder loads

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by gsewell, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. gsewell

    gsewell New Member

    Jul 29, 2009
    Being new to reloading I have a basic question on the amount of loads I see. Now, I have already done 223 55gr FMJ and 9mm 115gr FMJ rounds with no problems, but now I want to do some additional 9mm loads with a Hornady 124gr XTP bullet. I see loads in manuals and from others up to 6gr in weight. This is where I am having problems. If I load the case with powder with that load, 1. it is very close to the top of the case, and 2. I can not get the bullet down to the correct C.O.L. for the 9mm. What am I doing wrong? The powder I am using is Unique, which I have used with the 115gr FMJ and it works great.

  2. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    My manual, Hornady, says that 5.0 is MAX load for the 124gr. bullet.

  3. gsewell

    gsewell New Member

    Jul 29, 2009
    Thanks for the reply. I don't have the Hornady manual but the Fort Worth Gun show is today and after I leave to return to Dallas, I will stop in at Cabelas' and get one.

  4. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Get two, or even three! You will find that they won't always agree on load data, so you need to be able to compare. Never load any round above MAX load, and never load any round below data listed for that round. You can also find load information on the internet, but only use those loads that are posted by re-loading companies. Never trust a load that your buddy told you about, and never comprmise on safety.
  5. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay New Member

    May 26, 2009
    Central CT
    to replicate a cor-bon 124 gr +P round i use a ranier 124 gr on top of 6.6 gr of power pistol. it does not fill the case; it allows the bullet to seat with little to no powder compression. most say not to push plated above 1200 fps but i have not had troubles. a strong crimp is necessary. YMMV. it runs my friends sub-guns so well he he calls me to make sure i bring some. the flame is awesome

    two sites of interest-- for powder burn rates. also found in many load books and

    you didnt say your gun but unique is good in 4" and up. bullseye for less than that and power pistol/ titegroup and a host of others for 5" and up.
    verify everything. like carver says.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  6. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
    SW Fort Worth
    When using XTP's , ensure you're using the correct charts; you CANNOT use JHP or FMJ load data with an XTP, even if the weight is the same. Could you check the chart you were using and see what the bullet type is ?
  7. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

    Jul 30, 2009
    Handload recipes in manuals and respected publications are exact recipes for brand of case, primer, powder brand, exact weight and brand (or mold) of bullet, and OAL. This is especially true when loading near max pressure loads. Up to 4000 psi changes have been reported using a different brand of primer. Different brands of cases have different internal volumes and this can make a big difference in pressure if the load data is for a larger volume (typically commercial) case and you put the same load in a significantly smaller volume more heavily constructed (typically military) case. This is why loading manuals advise one to start with lighter loading and carefully work your way up looking for signs of excess pressure.

    Bullet seating depth reduces internal case volume. If you take a published load for a particular solid flat point design bullet and decide to substitute a longer extreme hollow point bullet of the same weight, and seat it to the same OAL your breech pressure will increase, because the longer bullet takes up more room in the case.

    Hercules wrote a letter of complaint to The American Handgunner Mag. about an article the magazine published in the 09&10 1981 issue. The Hercules letter signed by R.G. Guenter cited some actual test data that illustrates the concept that I am trying to communicate, here.

    All other things being held constant a 148 wadcuter bullet was normally seated in a 38 Spl. case with 2.7 grains of Bullseye and produced 8700 #. Increasing the seating depth by 0.121" produced 16100 #.

    When the charge was doubled to 5.4 grains with normal seating, the pressure rose to 32,300 #. {This is getting into today's emasculated .357 Mag. pressure range, but is not likely dangerous in a post WW II medium frame Colt or S&W} However, seating 0.060" deeper than normal yielded 46,400 # {Now we are getting into pressures typically found in many high power rifles and possibly very early 357 Mag loadings for heavy S&W "N" (44 cal) frame and cylinder revolvers that the .357 Mag. caliber was originally made for.}

    To continue, when the seating depth was increased by 0.121" deeper than normal, the pressure was 55,500 # {This is high pressure for most HP rifles. The Rem. Ultra-Mag pressures for the super strong Model 700 Rifle only go to about 60,000 #. Strong revolvers do not take many of these without loosening up, and some autoloading pistols designed for 35,000 #, likely blow cases out damaging guns and people!.

    At 0.171" deeper than normal depth (less than 3/16") the pressure increases to 76,100 #. THIS KIND OF PRESSURE OFTEN WRECKS REVOLVERS AND PISTOLS IN A RATHER DRAMATIC FASHION!

    Hope the above data gets the general idea across.

    At least one Speer Loading manual that was printed as the 9X19 mm was gaining popularity in the 1980's pointed out, that increasing the normal seating depth of a 9 mm 115 FMJ bullet by 0.100 (1/10th") with max load fast burning powders like 231, or Bullseye, could drive breech pressure from about 32,000 # to over 60,000# . THEY WERE SPECIFICALLY CONCERNED ABOUT A RELOADED BULLET (NOT TIGHTLY GRIPPED BY THE CASE) BEING SHOVED DEEPER INTO THE CASE IN THE LOADING CYCLE! This sometimes happens with factory ammo as well as reloaded ammo. It may explain some of the pictures that were see of broken auto-loading pistols.

    Make sure that each reloaded auto-loading caliber bullet is held firmly by the case. DO NOT EVER SHOOT A CARTRIDGE WHOSE BULLET HAS BEEN SHOVED DEEPER INTO THE CARTRIDGE CASE!
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