I hope this is a good place for this, new to the forum. The below reflects my personal experience, but it was significant enough that I thought it to be worthy of publishing so that you all could enjoy the read:
Review:
This may be somewhat long, but I need to provide as much insight and clarification as possible so that you do not think I am just a disgruntled customer.
I work for an engineering services company in the defense industry, and while I am not an engineer or technician, I do understand basic design and function concepts, and, I have been an avid shooter and hunter since I was 12 years old, about 4 decades ago. I fancy myself as an armchair gun repair person for minor repairs. I am not skilled enough to do more detailed and intricate operations that a good gunsmith would be able to do, like chambering, barrel making, stock making, etc…but I have seen it done and understand the concepts. With that background, I will tell you what happened this past weekend.
I have never owned a .308 bolt gun before, but I have owned several bolt guns in 30.06, one of which was a Rem. Model 700 BDL (great gun, I did trade it for a Garand 20 years ago though). I purchased my Model 770 December 30, 2013, but I did not get to take it out until February 1 (Saturday), and I was excited to finally get to shoot it. My plan was to give it to my son as his first bolt gun this year for his birthday. I knew it was an entry level gun at an entry level price point and would not demonstrate the mechanical precision, fit, smoothness and visual appeal that the higher end guns do, but that was Ok.
After home inspection I found that the chamber and bolt lug area on the barrel had very small metal shavings and such in there, I had not seen that before.
I took it out to my property and set up on my makeshift range to zero the rifle. I replaced the provided scope with a slightly higher end one. I removed the bolt and bore sighted through the barrel to the bull at 25 meters, and then re-inserted the bolt. I loaded one round of Remington 150gr Corelokd (brand new box) into the box magazine and inserted it into the rifle on an open bolt. I fired one round, which hit to the right, dialed the scope to the hole, fired one more round the same way and was dead on. I then loaded three rounds into the box, inserted it into the rifle, closed the bolt, fired, almost in the same hole, dead on.
When I tried to cycle the bolt, the bottom bolt lug was catching the rim of the neck of the case (that part where the bullet goes into the brass at the neck of the brass case) of the next round and I worked it several times but it would not come open but part way. I dropped the mag box and of course it opened, and I tried several more times to get the bolt to open with three rounds, then two, then one, and the bolt would only open part way until that bottom lug made contact with the bullet neck rim, and then it would not open any further. I fired two more rounds, one round at a time, inserted into the box on an open bolt. All four were in one ragged hole (fired a total of five all day, first round was the sighter). I picked the rifle up from the rest and the bottom sling swivel hole broke clean off. I took the rifle home and started to analyze it, not wanting to give up. I never go to roll it out to 100yds to see how it would shoot there.
On Sunday after church I went to work looking at the magazine and quite frankly, it does not mate very well in the mag well, it is sloppy, so I figured that might be part of it, but I no longer think that. The bullet orientation seemed a little high in the front when more than one round was inserted into the mag. I saw where I think Remington may have attempted to fix an earlier feed problem by cutting a small “U” grove in the end of the box. I softened the inside edge of that little groove and closed the front end of the cartridge retaining lips ever so slightly, and filed the sharp edges on both lips, buffed them, and it made it easier to insert and take rounds out of the mag. I took three dummy rounds in the mag and inserted them onto a closed bolt. When I cycled the action, it still caught, but it did open and chamber a dummy. The remaining two dummies had the same problem, but jerking the bolt at an upward angle did help it work, but it was intermittent. I thought I was at least on the right track. That is when all went bad.
When I pulled the bolt back it got stuck open several times and I had to wiggle it to release it from the back of the "receiver". The last time I pulled the bolt back it came clean out of the "receiver" and I almost dropped it. Yes, the bolt lock was secure, I knew this because I had to flip the switch to put the bolt back in. I did this again and the bolt came out again, only this time when I reinserted the bolt, the internal assembly, including the firing pin and spring flew out the back of the bolt and hit me in the arm. I was not hurt badly.
My issue here is that if this had happened while I was firing, my face would have a hole it in or worse.
I have always been taught that you should not just complain and call out problems without also offering solutions, so I now offer some solutions.
1. The stock is not good in that it is way too brittle, the contractor for the stock should be replaced or Remington should reprimand severely the engineer who designed it from a materials standpoint (if that person works for them)
2. The magazine is not good either, the fit is sloppy and the cartridge orientation is too high. Also, it is really a long action magazine, what they did was to put a spacer in the back, change the spring and follower to handle the 308 round…by the time you do all of that, you could have fabricated a magazine (and mag well) that would at least look like it was designed for that caliber
3. The stock was cool looking in that it was camo, but that is where the cool stopped. They tried to provide a modern look with asthetics, but clean lines and better materials would have done more…even for new shooters/hunters
4. QA/QC is obviously lacking here. I suspect, and am afraid that this lack of QC applies to the whole line, and maybe to all Remington’s product lines. If that is not really the case, it lays forth doubt, and that will crush a company’s reputation, especially given that I have read that the model 710 was also plagued with problems…this is two strikes on a market that does not forget as easily as the voting public does.
5. On the overall design, the bolt lock up seemed good, and the fact that the bolt locks straight to the barrel does not scare me, it has been done. With four rounds at 25 meters all in one hole, I surmised that the 100 yard or 100 meter potential would be good, but, the bolt falling apart like it did cannot be safe, and the plastic, or essentially non-existent receiver was not impressive.
6. I would recommend that Remington discontinue this rifle (if it has not already happened), and do more research into the budget rifle market, there are several companies that have not been at it as long as Remington has, that have produced very excellent budget priced rifles.
I got "took" it is true, but I bought a couple of Savage Model 110s in 30.06 before everyone thought they were the mac daddy, and they were/are awesome, sold one, have the other.
In conclusion, I am definitely not a Remington hater, like I said, I have had and do have some and they shoot and look good too, but they really screwed the pooch on this and since this is the second or third junk gun in a row for them, I can’t imagine that it is doing anything good for their reputation.
Thank you for the opportunity to post. See ya around the neighborhood
Review:
This may be somewhat long, but I need to provide as much insight and clarification as possible so that you do not think I am just a disgruntled customer.
I work for an engineering services company in the defense industry, and while I am not an engineer or technician, I do understand basic design and function concepts, and, I have been an avid shooter and hunter since I was 12 years old, about 4 decades ago. I fancy myself as an armchair gun repair person for minor repairs. I am not skilled enough to do more detailed and intricate operations that a good gunsmith would be able to do, like chambering, barrel making, stock making, etc…but I have seen it done and understand the concepts. With that background, I will tell you what happened this past weekend.
I have never owned a .308 bolt gun before, but I have owned several bolt guns in 30.06, one of which was a Rem. Model 700 BDL (great gun, I did trade it for a Garand 20 years ago though). I purchased my Model 770 December 30, 2013, but I did not get to take it out until February 1 (Saturday), and I was excited to finally get to shoot it. My plan was to give it to my son as his first bolt gun this year for his birthday. I knew it was an entry level gun at an entry level price point and would not demonstrate the mechanical precision, fit, smoothness and visual appeal that the higher end guns do, but that was Ok.
After home inspection I found that the chamber and bolt lug area on the barrel had very small metal shavings and such in there, I had not seen that before.
I took it out to my property and set up on my makeshift range to zero the rifle. I replaced the provided scope with a slightly higher end one. I removed the bolt and bore sighted through the barrel to the bull at 25 meters, and then re-inserted the bolt. I loaded one round of Remington 150gr Corelokd (brand new box) into the box magazine and inserted it into the rifle on an open bolt. I fired one round, which hit to the right, dialed the scope to the hole, fired one more round the same way and was dead on. I then loaded three rounds into the box, inserted it into the rifle, closed the bolt, fired, almost in the same hole, dead on.
When I tried to cycle the bolt, the bottom bolt lug was catching the rim of the neck of the case (that part where the bullet goes into the brass at the neck of the brass case) of the next round and I worked it several times but it would not come open but part way. I dropped the mag box and of course it opened, and I tried several more times to get the bolt to open with three rounds, then two, then one, and the bolt would only open part way until that bottom lug made contact with the bullet neck rim, and then it would not open any further. I fired two more rounds, one round at a time, inserted into the box on an open bolt. All four were in one ragged hole (fired a total of five all day, first round was the sighter). I picked the rifle up from the rest and the bottom sling swivel hole broke clean off. I took the rifle home and started to analyze it, not wanting to give up. I never go to roll it out to 100yds to see how it would shoot there.
On Sunday after church I went to work looking at the magazine and quite frankly, it does not mate very well in the mag well, it is sloppy, so I figured that might be part of it, but I no longer think that. The bullet orientation seemed a little high in the front when more than one round was inserted into the mag. I saw where I think Remington may have attempted to fix an earlier feed problem by cutting a small “U” grove in the end of the box. I softened the inside edge of that little groove and closed the front end of the cartridge retaining lips ever so slightly, and filed the sharp edges on both lips, buffed them, and it made it easier to insert and take rounds out of the mag. I took three dummy rounds in the mag and inserted them onto a closed bolt. When I cycled the action, it still caught, but it did open and chamber a dummy. The remaining two dummies had the same problem, but jerking the bolt at an upward angle did help it work, but it was intermittent. I thought I was at least on the right track. That is when all went bad.
When I pulled the bolt back it got stuck open several times and I had to wiggle it to release it from the back of the "receiver". The last time I pulled the bolt back it came clean out of the "receiver" and I almost dropped it. Yes, the bolt lock was secure, I knew this because I had to flip the switch to put the bolt back in. I did this again and the bolt came out again, only this time when I reinserted the bolt, the internal assembly, including the firing pin and spring flew out the back of the bolt and hit me in the arm. I was not hurt badly.
My issue here is that if this had happened while I was firing, my face would have a hole it in or worse.
I have always been taught that you should not just complain and call out problems without also offering solutions, so I now offer some solutions.
1. The stock is not good in that it is way too brittle, the contractor for the stock should be replaced or Remington should reprimand severely the engineer who designed it from a materials standpoint (if that person works for them)
2. The magazine is not good either, the fit is sloppy and the cartridge orientation is too high. Also, it is really a long action magazine, what they did was to put a spacer in the back, change the spring and follower to handle the 308 round…by the time you do all of that, you could have fabricated a magazine (and mag well) that would at least look like it was designed for that caliber
3. The stock was cool looking in that it was camo, but that is where the cool stopped. They tried to provide a modern look with asthetics, but clean lines and better materials would have done more…even for new shooters/hunters
4. QA/QC is obviously lacking here. I suspect, and am afraid that this lack of QC applies to the whole line, and maybe to all Remington’s product lines. If that is not really the case, it lays forth doubt, and that will crush a company’s reputation, especially given that I have read that the model 710 was also plagued with problems…this is two strikes on a market that does not forget as easily as the voting public does.
5. On the overall design, the bolt lock up seemed good, and the fact that the bolt locks straight to the barrel does not scare me, it has been done. With four rounds at 25 meters all in one hole, I surmised that the 100 yard or 100 meter potential would be good, but, the bolt falling apart like it did cannot be safe, and the plastic, or essentially non-existent receiver was not impressive.
6. I would recommend that Remington discontinue this rifle (if it has not already happened), and do more research into the budget rifle market, there are several companies that have not been at it as long as Remington has, that have produced very excellent budget priced rifles.
I got "took" it is true, but I bought a couple of Savage Model 110s in 30.06 before everyone thought they were the mac daddy, and they were/are awesome, sold one, have the other.
In conclusion, I am definitely not a Remington hater, like I said, I have had and do have some and they shoot and look good too, but they really screwed the pooch on this and since this is the second or third junk gun in a row for them, I can’t imagine that it is doing anything good for their reputation.
Thank you for the opportunity to post. See ya around the neighborhood