Real cop killer bullit? ( 1 2 )

Discussion in 'Informational & Technical Archives' started by ruffitt, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt *TFF Admin Staff* In Heaven Now

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    Rons Toys
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    (5/9/01 2:59:25 pm)
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    Parent company of FN Manufacturing Inc. in Columbia SC that makes the M16A2
    rifle used by the US military is FN Herstal of Belgium. They introduced at the
    IACP conference last fall, the Five-seveN a new semi-automatic pistol in 5.7x28
    mm that "will consistently penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar where all known 9mm,
    .40 cal. And .45 cal. bullets just bounce off," the company says. "The point
    which makes this round so safe over the standard 5.56 mm to innocent bystanders
    in a typical urban situation is the reduced risk of over-penetration and how
    quick the round loses its energy before it becomes non-lethal."

    The Five-seveN double-action only, delayed blow-back-operated, polymer-frame
    semi-automatic pistol joins the line up of the M16A2, the M249 5.56-mm machine
    gun and 7.62-mm General Purpose Machine Gun. FN uses the 5.7x28-mm cartridge in
    its P90 submachine gun. The cartridge is truly "interesting". The 5.7-mm SS190
    Ball round, by design, is not a handgun cartridge. It is a rifle-type
    projectile in a short bottlenecked case.

    The company claims reduced risks of ricochet. The bullet won't bounce off
    building blocks. It remains in the block. It quickly loses its energy once it
    enters soft tissue, reducing over-penetration. Stray bullets are a reduced risk
    because the projectile does not retain lethal energy at long range. The SS190
    bullet energy drops to 80J at 400 meters while the 9mm bullet would retain 80J
    energy out to 800 meters.

    The Five-seveN pistol is the only one on the market to feature a 20-round
    magazine. With an empty magazine, it weighs just 1.36 pounds, 1.64 pounds
    loaded. Its recoil is even lighter than the 9x19-mm and its point of aim is
    virtually the same from 10 to 100 yards. Muzzle velocity approaches 2200 feet
    per second. A test shooter with a military background described it "almost like
    shooting a Ruger Mk II .22 pistol."

    The company is positioning this cartridge and pistol as a police and military
    weapon system. But I don't see these two purposes as compatible.

    The soldier's purpose is to stop an adversary who is probably wearing armor.
    The police officer's purpose is to stop an assailant who is probably not wearing
    armor. The soldier wants to wound his enemy so that two others are needed to
    take the casualty from the battlefield. The police officer's only purpose is to
    stop an aggressor's felonious assault.

    For these reasons, police use "controlled expansion bullets" of 125 to 185
    grains in weight, depending on caliber, that mushroom to twice their diameter
    and stop suddenly in the target. Gelatin tests on the 31-grain 5.7x28-mm bullet
    indicate that it will not deform or fragment -- conforming to the Geneva
    Convention -- but at about 2 inches of penetration it begins to tumble 180
    degrees producing a wound cavity similar to that of the 5.56-mm NATO cartridge
    used in M16 rifles. But others disagree saying the 5.7x28-mm bullet has only
    half the weight at 1000 fps less velocity than the 5.56x45 mm NATO cartridge
    used in the M16 rifle. Dr. Martin L. Fackler of the International Wound
    Ballistics Association says. "The FiveseveN bullet doesn't even come close to
    matching the wounding capacity of a well-designed expanding 9 mm handgun
    bullet." Ballistic data provided by the company lists muzzle velocity but makes
    no mention of muzzle energy.

    The Los Angeles bank robbery shoot out showed us the need for an armor-piercing
    bullet for police. The threat of terrorism shows us the need for "assault
    rifles" for police. They can be useful when an officer responds to a call and
    has this equipment in his patrol car. If he suddenly faces such a threat after
    he's left the car, you can bet this equipment will not be readily available.


    www.clede.com/articles/po...morbul.htm


    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 471
    (5/9/01 3:21:06 pm)
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    This has been out for over a year, pistol and bullpup-SMG, this round is smoking hot too, I have a write up on the complete test of this Micro-round, very light grain, super high speed...has the ability to pearce a Kevlar helmet(both sides at 300+ meters. Special Military and Special Police only. LTS

    Alphamale
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 161
    (5/9/01 6:30:11 pm)
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    From what I've read, the P90 is getting some use in CQB. I thought I read somewhere that it was designed for REMF's so that they would have something better than a handgun, but not as big(cumbersome) as a rifle. Is this true?



    Remember: It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, then it's just fun!

    Edited by: Alphamale at: 5/9/01 7:43:51 pm

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 475
    (5/9/01 6:36:50 pm)
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    Yep, thats-a-fact-jack.

    The pistol was a testing platform for the round.

    Edited by: LIKTOSHOOT at: 5/9/01 7:37:52 pm

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 125
    (5/9/01 10:39:12 pm)
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    So, Why is it called A "Cop Killer Bullet"? this connotation makes me cringe, is it marketed as such? and if so ,why? sales to that element of society can not be THAT lucrative,

    Alphamale
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 162
    (5/9/01 11:08:07 pm)
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    Tye, it's not called a cop killer bullit, I think the title for this thread came from a discussion from Tulips World.
    But the round was designed for the military just for the purpose of defeating the kevlar helmets and body armor though. I'm going through my backlog of magazines and books looking for articles on it and am gonna post what I find.
    Remember: It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, then it's just fun!

    Alphamale
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 195
    (5/16/01 2:16:20 am)
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    See info on the P90 in the NFA Weapons forum
    Remember: It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, then it's just fun!

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 137
    (5/16/01 7:25:48 am)
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    These here Cop Kidder Buddits,is they Cheep?

    tuckerd1
    Member
    Posts: 56
    (5/16/01 7:31:31 am)
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    Tye, them Huns don't have cops do da?

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 138
    (5/16/01 5:42:41 pm)
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    Tuck, I don't rightly know, I don't even know wher Hun Land is, I think it's in some forrin place like Maasachewsis or Iderho, but if theys got Hun Cops, I reckon I'll need me some of them Buddits, Dang! it's just one thing after anuther, eatin up A mans Dollar, I seem to spend money as fast as I get it,and I done had to park My tractor, got so they wanted near on to A Dollar and half for A gallon of gas, at the jot um down store, and that there Farmall goes thru A gallon of thet stuff ever week or two, must think A man is made of Dollars and can just break off one when he wants, I traded A mule for that tractor, and thunk I'd done good, but I reckon I wuz Skint!

    tuckerd1
    Member
    Posts: 62
    (5/17/01 8:11:49 am)
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    Tye, A good mule is hard to beat. Little stubborn at times, but can work hard. I know that gallon of fuel every couple of weeks in that Farmall can be tough.

    Kdubya
    Moderator
    Posts: 306
    (5/17/01 12:47:32 pm)
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    Yup -
    If'n it ain't the folks jackin up the gas prices, it's the whusky people wantin' more fer a jug o' varnish remover. Bib overall's gittin' whar I can onlyst buy a 'spender at a time. Sack a beens er' a loaf o' bread costs more'n whut we usta' spend fer the hole week's grocery list! Maybe them city folk think the money grows on the 'tater vines, Tye - I shore need ta fin' thet burried gold the ol' Dutchman left in the Suppurstitin's mt'ns over east of me, here a 'ways. Wonder how bigga nugget it'd take to plunk down fer a wild nite down on Van Buren St in Feenix? Shore wud like ta fin one o' them fancy wimmin ta go hootin' n' stompin' with n' guzzle som gud Who Hit John, 'steada this pizzen rotgut stuff my cousin Lem brews up using cactus bushes! Gawd - thet stuff'l make yore eyeballs cross, yer rectal pucker strings let loose n' yore tongue grow fuzzy matted hair! Waughhhhh!
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 139
    (5/17/01 2:05:28 pm)
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    I don't know about the rotgut, but the symptoms is the same I had once, I yanked the door open on the two holer and caught Aunt Agnes in the process of using A white cob to see if She needed A red cob,and it were two day before I regaine the ability to make A noise without sounding like A rusty pump,

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 580
    (5/17/01 2:12:41 pm)
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    Kdub, send on down sum that there whiskey....sounds gud fer me......That ain`t no river water, frum up there is it?

    Kdubya
    Moderator
    Posts: 311
    (5/17/01 5:30:58 pm)
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    Most o' the riveer bottoms we gots ya kin walk accrost without gittin' yer feets wet!
    Naw, LTS, we gits the water frum muddy hoof prints, jes lak they do in texass!
    Man, thet'd be a site, TYE - 'member them ol' corncobs, along wif the slick papered Sears and Rearback catalogs! Ya mean, the 2-holer din' have an inside spinner ta keep things private like?
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 958
    (5/17/01 10:01:18 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Ya'll don't know SHEEEEE-AAAAAAAT!
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator



    Tac401
    Administrator
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    (5/17/01 10:17:44 pm)
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    dat was ajoke ya'll!!!!!!!!!!!
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    ruffitt
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    Posts: 111
    (5/18/01 8:52:14 am)
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    Whutz "ajoke"? Does dat mean yer a'funnin us'ns?
    ruffitt

    Tac401
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    (5/18/01 9:24:10 pm)
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    Yup it do, I be funin youins!

    Tac
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 143
    (5/19/01 5:48:33 am)
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    Now, ya'll beginning to make mock of an old man, ain't Ya'll, talkin like Me an Mine, well, I'll just say this here about that, I got lots of them Cheep Buddits, and ain't stingy with them, just come up My end of The middle fork of the Wolf, and I'll fetch You one,and durn quik! I done been mocked for the last time, I may have to come out thar to Massachewsis or wharever Ya'll is and read You from the Book! chapter and verse! You is got the only warnin, so, thar!

    Bob In St Louis
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 346
    (5/19/01 12:22:39 pm)
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    You go git em', Brother Tye!
    Support the Dead Party, vote Harry S. Truman for Missouri Senate in 2002!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 975
    (5/19/01 6:31:35 pm)
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    Oh yeah, well I got me a Cement Pond, bet chew ain't
    gat wun!
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    TYRVR
    Moderator
    Posts: 144
    (5/19/01 7:37:14 pm)
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    Don't reckon as how I see much use of A pond full of cement, handy for makin statchers,I reckon, just take A dead guy and dip him,....the ones on hosses might be tuff, have to get You A block an fall, don't it dry out? or is it spring fed?

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 981
    (5/19/01 11:03:05 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Oh,

    It gat this purdy blue water dat make my har stiff up
    witout usein eny hog fat, man it makes me look like
    a real slicker.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    Kdubya
    Moderator
    Posts: 323
    (5/20/01 10:57:40 am)
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    Well, Lawdy - !

    Now, ol' Tac done fell off'n the turnip waggen an stove in his haid - kinda hard to figger out a Vermont Yankee when he starts talkin' lak a Southeran Boy! Must be the same as a Massatuchists revonuer that try to blend in with holler folk to sneak up on Lem's an Mordiach's stills - shoot, we kin spot 'em a mile off! Better stock up on them cheep buddits, Tye - looks lak a whole passle a them furriners is trying to skulk into the crik bottom!, and talkin' funny thinkin' we won't know who they is!
    Keep off the Ridgeline!!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 987
    (5/20/01 9:42:36 pm)
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    Why don't ya'll know I cum here 4 yeer ago frum TN!

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