Refusal to sell

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by TIG, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. TIG

    TIG New Member

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    Hello, I am new to this site and so far I really enjoy it. I have a question if you guys could help me out. This is how the story goes, my brother is looking to buy a new shotgun for duck hunting so we set out shopping for different guns at different retail stores and gun stores. We were both looking at guns and getting a feel for them seeing wich ones felt the best at the first retail store. Long story short we went around town looking for better deals but we ended up at the first store again. My brother decided what he wanted so he set off to buy it and at that time it was late in the afternoon. the salesman gave him the paper work and my brother started filling it out. About midway through the registration, the guy that we spoke to earlier in the morning came out and told us that we cant buy the gun with out even finishing the backround check. He assumed that earlier in the morning I was going to buy the gun because I was talking guns with him more than my brother was and I was apparently holding the guns longer than my brother was. Anyways he said quote on quote "Were not going to let you buy the gun right now because ealier we assumed that you were going to buy it and now your brother is buying it and this is looking like a very suspecious deal otherwise known as a Straw deal." I was appalled. My brother didnt even finish the backround check and they closed the deal because they thought he was buying the gun for me. Very Very disappointed in that deal and to tell you the truth very pissed off, they made a fuss in the store and made us look like fools, has this happend to anybody?Thanks,
    Kris
  2. travihanson

    travihanson New Member

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    Sounds like a bunch of crap to me...What state do you live in?!
  3. TIG

    TIG New Member

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    Well allright then, I'm not crazy. have you ever heard of such a thing! I live in Arizona. I'm going to go in with my brother again tomarrow, if they refuse to sell again i'll be very mad! Basically what their saying is you have to purchase a gun alone and not with a buddy or hell my own brother. what do you think of that! Thank for the response
    Kris
  4. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member

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    Find another gunshop not staffed by idiots.
  5. Deputy Dawg

    Deputy Dawg Active Member

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    Move to Texas.
  6. TIG

    TIG New Member

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    Ya this whole deal is a bunch of crap, not naming any names (Sportsman Warehouse) I am very disipointed and lost a customer for life! I keep thinking about it more and more It just makes me madder!
    Kris
  7. berto64

    berto64 Active Member

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    Welcome to the asylum TIG.


    That mentality is why I left AZ 10 yrs ago.

    Turning into liberal enclave.
  8. TIG

    TIG New Member

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    Thanks for the welcoming guys. is that legal to refuse to sell a gun to a customer without even doing a backround check?
    Kris
  9. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    They are more than likely legaly allowed to be dumb asses if they like....


    Donny
  10. 358 winchester

    358 winchester *TFF Admin Staff*

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    It is scary what they can do ! like Pickenup says
    "we need more chlorine in the gene pool"
  11. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    Workin at a gunshop I understand both sides of the situation. It is a pain in the butt but it us very possible that they(gunshop) could have just got burned by ATF. And were real sticky about the laws. From the gun shops point of view, If two people come into the shop one of them acts like he wants a shotgun and holds it gets a feel for it, Leaves then comes back and someone else wants to buy it. It does look like a straw purchase.
  12. TIG

    TIG New Member

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    I understand the gun shops point of view fully, I dont blame them. But to refuse to sell a gun on one guys assumtion just does not seem right. So if I go into the gun shop today and go with my brother again to buy the gun with me standing there are they going to assume forever that my bro is buying the gun for me and never sell him the gun?
    Kris
  13. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    Well, it sounds simple enough to me. Tell the guy at the gun store that you really want the gun after all. You fill out the paperwork and then when the background check for YOU goes through, you change your mind just to prove to this guy that you're not trying to pull something over on him. I'm assuming that you can otherwise buy a gun. After both checks are done, they should have no problem and if they do, they're idiots... There's a local guy who has done time for knowingly selling a gun to an undercover cop who told him that the gun was 'for his buddy....'

    BUT, if you can't legally own a gun, you shouldn't go with your brother to pick one out... There's too much suspicion involved.

    When my wife purchased her .38, I was the one really looking at them because she's not a gun guru and definitely not a haggler on price. When it came time to make the purchase, my wife bought the gun because it was FOR her. I was very surprised that we didn't get a line like the one you got at your gun store. If we had gotten that line, I would have told them to run my background check if they needed proof that there was no reason for a straw buy to take place. Moral of the story, let them know up front that both of you can legally own a gun and you're not afraid of a background check to prove it.

    Beware that this may pi55 the seller off... :)
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  14. TIG

    TIG New Member

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    Ponycar17, thats exactly what I said. I offered to have my backround checked in front of the sales man and the guy said that they cant do that on a single purchase. that would take care of the problem, simple enough just like you said. anyways what can you do.
    Kris
  15. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    If you did that, and they still didn't want to cooperate with you, I'd go find another gun store.

    But before I left, I'd let him know that when you accuse someone of a felony without supporting proof you're committing slander, and that you'd be writing a letter to the store's corporate HQ stating just that. And then find a gun store without idiots working in it, as was stated already... I feel for ya'... I hate when stuff like that happens.
  16. TTUshooter

    TTUshooter New Member

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    I hate to say this guys. But while the second amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms. it doesnt guarantee the right that any private business establishment HAS to sell you a firearm if you show up, have the money and are legally able to own a weapon. Its that wonderful thing that business have called the right to refuse service to anyone for almost any reason. I can see where the gun shop is coming from and I agree with Southern, the gun shop probably just got recently burned on something or have been tipped off that there might be some sort of investigation going on and that agents of the wonderful BATF were around. While it may be a dumb business decision on their part to turn away a willing and ready customer but at the same time the gun shop is probably just covering their asses. Just head to a different shop and just know that business owners gotta look out for them and their own. I'm sure it was nothing personal.
  17. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    TTUshooter, while I agree that individual business owners have a decision in the matter, I'll disagree that what they did was right. It seems as though they accused him of a crime. If they had simply said that "we're sorry, but we can't sell this item to you," it may be perfectly acceptable, however dumb on their part. By indicating that they thought a 'straw purchase' was occurring, especially if other customers heard them say that, they really messed up. Maybe I'm out of line?...

    I would call it similar to a store manager walking out and saying loudly, "hey did you just pick up something and put it in your pocket?..." And then calling the cops before checking your pockets. Now your image is ruined to anyone who saw the event, even though you committed no crime...
  18. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Buy the gun from another store! Then here's what I would do:

    Write a letter to the corporate office, explaining everything that happened and that you were embarassed by their slanderous attack on you and your brother. Also tell them you are contemplating legal action (for their slanderous verbal attack in front of other customers) and you and your friends most certainly won't be coming into that store again. Tell them that you are a member of a local shooting club and the way you were treated will be relayed to all 400 (pick a number) members. Offer them a reprieve to the above actions if they force the sales person to apologize to you face to face. Now how sweet would that be if the salesman has to apologize in front of many customers?

    If the corporation does nothing be sure to tell every one of your friends, fellow employees, and every Tom, Dick and Harry you ever meet or run into what a poor place that store chain is to shop at. Even telling a few people has a way of making a person feel better about the situation since that person got the upper hand and deterred at least one other customer from that chain.

    I bought a pistol once that turned out to not only be a lemon but the manufacturer continuously lied to me during the months and months of wait for the gun. Believe you me, I tell everyone I know and everyone on the Internet about that company and I glow inside every time I do regardless that I lost about $700 on the deal. That manufacturer has lost that many times over based on my comments, and he well deserves it!

    What we have here is typical of what is driven by Law Enforement today (COP. BATF, Prosecutors, etc). Zero Tollerance is what they call it. There is no grey area and everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Not only that, you are assumed to be a convicted felon and treated that way. Every traffic stop I have had in recent years has been that way and I'm a 66 year old grey haired white guy in a pickup truck or a Toyota commuter car. In this case that attitude filtered down from the BATF relentless search for gun store errors to the sales guy, who knows he could get into big trouble for not stopping what from some obscure viewpoint MIGHT have been a straw purchase. Its a sorry state of affairs!

    While the gun store has the right to not sell to you, you have the right to relay your true story to everyone you know and impact the stores business.

    LDBennett
  19. Word of mouth is the best--or the very worst--kind of advertising a business can get, TIG. The advice LDB gave you is right on the mark. You were treated unfairly. Don't keep it to yourself. Trust me, letting people know what happened will have a very harsh effect on that company, especially if you write to corporate headquarters.
  20. ruger22com

    ruger22com New Member

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    Here is my 2 bits and I ALSO am a class 01 FFL dealer. if I am approached by 2 guys (say, at a gun show), and I even suspect a little bit that one is buying for the other...I also will not sell....period...end of story.

    Around here the BATF have been giving dealers hell over the straw purchase laws, and it is not worth LOSING MY LICENSE if it turns out I sell a gun to someone who is buying it for his friend or brother.

    Can I ask a question? is one of you UNDER 18??? (or look like it), if so, it is understandable why the dealer thought you were buying the rifle for an UNDER AGE RELETIVE OR FRIEND and killed the sale. also, The FBI check does not even come into play if a dealer suspects a straw sale.

    Next time go to the store ALONE.

    ...P.S. writing to the corporate hq will not change a thing, except maybe make them consider that the costs of selling guns is not worth the hassle. remember when pennys, sears, etc. all used to sell guns? I do.
    Nobody was treated unfair here, except you simply do not know the rules the store MUST play by under the law. So next time, go to the store alone. very few dealers will sell if you bring a friend who asks a lot of questions and paws the guns before you decide which to buy. that is a fact.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
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