Remington Rand M1911A1 U.S. Army

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by John S, Mar 6, 2007.

  1. John S

    John S New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Hi, I have a Remington M1911A1 gun produced in 1943 based on serial number info. (143XXXX). This gun was purchased from the Tokyo U.S. army depot in 1946. I have the original sales paper work from the depot showing the sale of the gun as used with matching serial number. The gun has been in storage since that time and was never used. It has been packed with a little grease coating on it since that time. I also have the original holster that came with the gun and is also shown on sales ticket. The gun does not have the normal blue style finish but appears to be polished or nickel-plated. The gun appears to have minimal wear, all markings are easy to read and the gun looks in good shape other than removing the grease to make a closer inspection. The retired Army Colonel that purchased the gun in 1946 is now in his 90's and is asking me to get information and value of gun for possible sale. My questions are were do I go to find the best information on this type of gun and there values? Thanks for your help, John S
  2. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Messages:
    9,141
    Location:
    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Hi John S......welcome to TFF.

    Hmmmmm.......that's very strange. The normal finish on a M1911A1 would be parkerized and be a greyish or greenish dull finish. Are you sure your friend didn't have it nickle plated after he bought it?

    Remington Rand made 1,086,624 A1's from 1943 to 1945. All were parkerized.

    Blue Book value (in original condition) is:

    98% - $1,300
    95% - $1,000
    90% - $800
    80% - $700
    70% - $600

    Unfortunately, the polished or nickle finish pretty much destroys the collector value of this firearm and puts it into the "shooter" range value of about $500 (depending on condition).

    Some good websites for learning about the M1911A1 pistol are:

    http://www.sightm1911.com/

    http://www.m1911.org/full_index1.htm

    http://www.coltautos.com/

    http://www.model1911a1.com/
  3. John S

    John S New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    2
    Hi, Thanks for the info and the welcome. As stated the Gun was purchased in 1946 from the U.S. Army Depot in Tokyo during the occupation. He purchased the gun just before he was sent back state side. The gun was placed in storage and maintained at his home since then but has never been fired since 1946. I have his original paper work for the sale from the Tokyo army depot showing the purchase of the gun and holster along with his 1946 gun permit. The gun was purchased from the army with the polished or nickel finish and was not done by the owner. I was under the impression based on conversations with the Colonel that officers versions of this gun were made to look different than standard issue given to regular soldiers. Is this the reason it has a different finish on it? Based on your research you state the guns were never made with this finish by the manufacture but could the armed forces of that time placed the finish on it to meet some sort of dress code for officers? The fact that I can trace the history on this gun back to its purchase in 1946, I can not see any one but the Army or manufacture putting this finish on the gun. It stands to reason that the area in and around Tokyo would not have the industry or resources at that time to do such a job and here at home this type of finish would have been nearly impossible to have done by the general public because of the war. I could only see the government requesting this type of finish based on how recourses were handled during this time period. Again I am speculating here but the fact that the gun was in the Armies hands from late 1943 till April of 1946 and has been in one owner’s hands since than unused I think I have a good case. The only reason I am questioning the finish is I am able to talk to the owner still and have paper work to back up what he claims. Let me know what you think. John
  4. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    Central Texas
    I've been collecting WWII and WWI .45 for about 15-20 years. I have every book that Charles W. Clawson published. The factory did not produce any nickel, chrome or stainless steel .45s. If the old Col. didn't refinish the gun then whoever it was issued to before turned back in to the gun room, arsenal, supply clerk, etc. did.
    Here is a 1944 RR.

    Ask the experts:http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/pistol/pistol.pl?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2007
  5. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Messages:
    9,141
    Location:
    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Sorry John, but the answer is still "no". In fact, if you visit the Eisenhower Presidential Library & Museum in Abiline, Kansas, you can see the sidearm that was issued to General Dwight Eisenhower. It's a standard Ithaca M1911A1 with standard parkerized finish (I've been there and seen it).

    What the Colonel may be referring to, I believe, is a smaller pistol, the Colt Model 1903 and Model 1908 Hammerless Pocket Pistol (later called the Military Model M) in .32ACP and .380ACP that were issued to General Officers. These pistols had a blued or parkerized finish.

    With the exception of the Models 1903 & 1908, which were issued only to Generals, officers were issued the same military firearms as the lower ranks.

    This is a strange one! :confused:
  6. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Your statement that the gun was bought at the "Tokyo U.S. army depot in 1946" is throwing me. I wasn't aware that soldiers were allowed to buy military weaponry from the armory. Since this is Occupied Japan though, after the war, if it came from either the PX or the Post Rod and Gun Club, I have a theory to explain the finish.

    If the Exchange or the Gun Club was authorized to sell guns "surplus to needs", possibly they would take it on their own to have the guns refinished, figuring that a bright blue or nickel gun would sell better than a dull grey/green one.

    Like I said. It's a theory. But it would explain it.
  7. Brian Selleck

    Brian Selleck New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    I too have a Remington Rand that is Nickle Plated that was given to me by my father. I TOO WAS INFORMED THAT IS PROBABLY WAS AN OFFICERS SIDEARM.

    M-1911A1 US ARMY S/N 2644603 PROOFED FJA.

    THE WEAPONED WAS OWNED BY A MERRILL'S MARAUDERS AND I HAVE THE CARD THAT HE BELONGED TO THE MARAUDERS. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE HE WAS MY FATHER.

    I TOOK THE WEAPON TO A DEALERS AND HE TOLD ME IF THE FINISH WAS ORIGINAL IT WOULD BE WORTH APPROX. $4000.00, BUT BECAUSE IT WAS NICKEL PLATED AND BELONGED TO A MARAUDER HE OFFERED ME $1500.00 FOR THE 45 IF I INCLUDED THE MARAUDERS CARD WITH IT. THIS WEAPON IS IN MINT CONDITION. I AM LOOKING TO SELL IT.

    IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED E-MAIL ME AT **********@aol.com and I will send you a pic. I had a Master of Arms look at the weapon and he told me the weapon is tight, meaning no slack in the slide at all. MINT baby, MINT.

    I would rather sell it to a collector then the shop. I want someone to have it who understands who the Merrill's Marauders were and how important they were in WW II.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2014
  8. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    Central Texas
    If I were you I'd take the 1500 and run. The gun has no collector value with the original finish gone.
  9. DCOhio

    DCOhio New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Hartville, Ohio
    I have a Remington Rand gov. .45 question also. I've inherited one that was factory rebuilt/finished in the '60's ( I believe) and never fired after that. It is parkerized with the brown plastic grips as the gun shown above. The serial number is low and only 6 numbers
    No493xxx with the large N and small o. There are only two VERY small stamps around the trigger guard and really too light to make out for sure. I've looked at all the charts and cannot find a serial number in this range for RR .
    I'm wondering if anyone knowledgable can locate that sn range.
    Dale
  10. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Your gun isn't a Remington, it's a 1913 Colt, by serial number, with a RR slide. numbers on trigger guard are assemblers marks.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  11. DCOhio

    DCOhio New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Hartville, Ohio
    Silver,
    Thats what I'm figuring, although I see colt numbers 450,000-629,500 as Oct 24, 1918 to April 10, 1919.
    Yes knew about the marks, just too small to read well. One on trigger guard looks like '57' and one top top/rear of trigger guard looks like 'G17' .
    I'm still wondering about value as I don't think it's ever been fired after the rebuild.
    D.
  12. Silver72

    Silver72 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Your right, and I'm wrong. I was in a hurry and had a hard time signing in. I don't think I've been on this particular forum since Xracer past away, may he R.I.P.

    The last 1913 guns fell in the 44,001/60,400 range. Your gun was a 1918. If it was an Arsenal rebuilt gun it probably has several WWII parts besides the slide. They never thought about collectivity 60+ years down the road, only a functioning .4r5 to be issued again.

    Arsenal rebuilt guns used to be very cheap because they weren't original as issued. How at the gun shows they are bring double and then some since the all original guns are so far ans few between. With the coming on the internet lot's of guys "want just one of those old war time .45s" and will pay through the nose for anything that resembles a 1911 or A1 war gun.
  13. DCOhio

    DCOhio New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Hartville, Ohio
    Thanks Silver,
    I hope you are right about your last statement as I want to trade it for a big chunk of a new Springfield Champion 4, ultra compact, micro, or EMP, or a Colt Defender , or maybe even a Dan wesson? Still shopping. I like the DW's but leary of the old non-hype rep the revolvers used to have. Even though they were beautiful finished well made guns folks didn't want to trade on them or pay much for used so I steared away. I always felt this was reverse-hype but am still leary about the autos? But, the hype game changes over the years. I remember when half-plastic guns were looked down on! :>)
    This gun is very nice looking but don't need to shoot it as I have a Gold Cup I bought in 1974 for $240 and it's still a fine gun. I do want a stubby , all steel, .45acp for carry though.
    Thanks Again,
    D.
  14. blueoval1

    blueoval1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Well I too have the same story and own a RR 1911 with Nickel finish that has been inspected and said to be wearing its original finish. This is not Chrome or ratty or in any way new looking. Its an old Pistol and the finish looks to have traveled the same amount of miles as the rest of the gun.
    For the record. The person that inspected it gave me the same line about none being produced or issued with that finish. After looking the gun over well , I made a believer out of him.

    There is more to this and too many guns surfacing with what seems to be to be the same finish on them. The one guy posting has history on the gun all the way back to the US government and he is still being dismissed on this forum. Why is that exactly ?
  15. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,382
    i suspect they are beng dismissed because remington rand made guns for the military in one finish only .... and it wasn't nickle,or chrome. somewhere along the way they had to be refinished now if it was a colt that's a different story, it could be a commercial model bought at a px. issue guns were never put up for sale they were returned to the arsenal
  16. blueoval1

    blueoval1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Yes I have heared that parroted over and over by people that absolutely knew everything that went on at that gun company (and imediately after the guns left said company) in the 40s,,,,,,,Right ?????
    I mean there is no possible way that something could have been done without anyone on an internet forum knowing about it,,,,,, RIGHT ???? :)

    I deal with alot of antique/ collector cars and I see the same thing happen constantly. This never happened , that never happened. and then oops , maybe it did...

    As far as the value of the gun goes , I could care less.. I paid almost nothing for it and it does what I bought it for. I will never sell it reguardless of what it is or isnt worth. I just get a little chuckle every time I see people shot down about what they have when they can trace it back to issue.
  17. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,382
    this is well documented information from records kept, at the factories. as well as historians doing countless hours of research. these aren't rumors or or i heard from a guy who heard from his dying uncle etc..... hard to argue with facts.
  18. blueoval1

    blueoval1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    I agree completely . Its hard to argue with facts . So what exactly makes these peoples facts more plausible then the facts of someone that said he was issued a certain weapon ?

    Here is one thing I know. America today is just like the America of the 40s in that depending on who you are and how you rate , you can get anything you want. If I am the secretary of defense and I call Colt and I want a pink pistol with purple poka dots on it thats exactly what I am going to get. 60 years from now you probably wont find a record of me getting it or of it ever existing. The record however doesnt change the fact that I got it and that it does exist. At the time of me getting it I am sure I wont want to recieve a long wrap sheet on it explaining the weapon and why I wanted it , signed by members of congress with a portfolio of pictures each time and date stamped and notarized by Obama . Just so I can post its existense on an internet forum 60 years later and be able to prove it. No , I just want the pink gun. :)
  19. oscarmayer

    oscarmayer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,382
    60 plus years of fuzzy memory sometimes makes all the difference in the world. and yes colt could of been made to order anything was possible for the right money. but remington rand, union switch and signal etc... made parkerized guns for the gov't period nothing else. could they have sent one out to a plater to have it chromed maybe but not very likely and again guns were turned in after the war they belonged to the gov't and returned to arsenals not sold after being plated in a px.
  20. blueoval1

    blueoval1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Send one out to the platers ? No I think it was more like a pallet or two. Which is still a grain of sand on the beach compared to gun production. And what Remington Rand made was what they were told to make.
    Anyone having trouble with this concept has never worked in corperate america.

    If they were asked by the person that was feeding them to send a pallet of guns to "Acme" to have them plated thats exactly what they were going to do. Do you really think they would have said "We make guns for the war effort , we cant do that" ?
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Remington Rand M1911A1 U.S. Army Jun 27, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Remington Rand M1911A1 Feb 21, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Inherited a Remington-Rand! May 9, 2013
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum 50 rds of winchester.22 auto (brand remington) Jan 23, 2013
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum remington rand 1911 .45 cal pistol military ? Dec 20, 2012

Share This Page